What would we lose if RTÉ was abolished

thereiver

Rte are like the bbc ,they exist to make programs that reflect the culture of the country ,and act as an independent news source They face a new situation people now have access to 100s if channels YouTube. Netflix streaming apps online free tv

Its a international problem. Ratings are falling for standard broadcast channels amid the endless options we have for entertainment

Darwin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122047626#Comment_122047626

If you think they are an independent body and completely detached from government influence you are completely deluded. There are reams of examples - just two off that come to mind immediately…the bust of 2007 led to calls to cut public sector pay and the reporting at the time was completely one sided constantly trotting out the government line. I remember an RTE reporter claiming all school teachers were taking advantage of a strike day to do their shopping over the border in an effort to discredit their strike action. During the covid crisis there was little to no questioning of NPHET, in fact RTE became NTE, NPHET television. The executive of RTE know who their paymasters are.

reactadabtc

I was a big fan of all the factual documentaries they put out. I use to watch the yearly autumn/drama that was put out. In recent years it's really fallen down and I don't enjoy any of the content. I genuinely did though pre covid. The football coverage with Bill O'Herlihy, Eamon Dunphy and Liam Brady and John Giles was absolutely sensational and was better than any of the paid channels we have today. The election coverage is needed and the weather.

I think RTE either needs to improve it's content (quality over quantity) or it should be slimmed down

dulpit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122050345#Comment_122050345

Reams of examples. Here's 1 from 17 years ago and another from 4 years ago. 🙄

Caquas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122047052#Comment_122047052

Why do so many people assume this thread is about abolishing public broadcasting? The question is whether we would lose anything by abolishing RTÉ but, of course, there would be others who happily fill that void, especially with licence fee support.

Normally, there should be a substantial loss of assets if any long-established, well-funded organisation is abolished. The organisation will have accumulated valuable intangible assets - human capital, know-how, managerial processes etc. . An organisation like RTÉ should be exceptionally rich in human capital, whether in front of or behind the cameras. Sadly, we have seen epic dysfunction and mismanagement within RTÉ in recent years. No one on this thread has argued that RTÉ produces anything of special value outside of news, current affairs and sports. All three areas, including the current talent, would be easily transferable (with licence fee funding) to a new, slimmer organisation.

No one in Government has made a convincing case for RTÉ but I doubt if any politician could even consider the question we are discussing. Of course, I don't believe for a moment that RTÉ will actually be abolished because the Government is simply incapable of making such a decision even if everyone around the Cabinet table abandoned the habits of a lifetime and agreed that it would be the best option.

At most there will be a re-branding with some new faces. The Licence Fee will be abolished because it has become troublesome to collect and a vote-loser. Eventually, RTÉ 2.0 will be financed from the public purse. All the Nordic countries have done this. The allegation that RTÉ is in the Government's pocket would then actually have some basis but the financing change won't make any noticeable difference - the programming will not improve.

Darwin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122054007#Comment_122054007

Sure I could go on, but I'm not here to answer to you. I provided two examples by way of context and both these episodes were not one off news bulletins, but consistent reporting on television and radio over a long period of time with a particular bias. You have made you mind up fine 🤷‍♂️

Caquas

The three RTÉ reports paint a dismal picture of mismanagement (or worse) in HR and Corporate Governance with a hidden slush fund in the "Barter Account".

What will be the consequences? The main culprits fled the scene and seem immune. The focus will be on avoiding a repetition. That will mean new layers of bureaucracy and governance after which the Government will provide a bail-out and introduce a new funding model - probably direct Exchequer funding to replace/supplement the discredited licence fee. Lots of political capital will be expended, tensions in Cabinet will intensify and there will be dissatisfaction all round with the eventual compromise (after the Locals/EP elections). I'd give it five years before the next crisis when the Government may not be so flush with our cash.

There will be endless blather and hand-wringing but no one with any authority or influence will even broach the radical solution - abolish RTÉ. Not because of the Barter Account or Tubs backhander or the Exit Packages. All that would be secondary if RTÉ had created anything of lasting value over the years.

I think it is clear from this thread that nothing of real value would be lost so long as we support public service news and current affairs broadcasting. RTÉ's physical assets could be transferred as appropriate to the news/current affairs public broadcasters would could be subsidised with ~€100Million a year. Sports coverage will largely finance itself. Another ~€100Million, plus tax breaks, could support culture/drama programming, which is largely what RTÉ does now but very inefficiently. €200 Million is half the cost of RTÉ today.

I would contrast this situation with other public sector scandals where there are substantial non-tangible assets that greatly outweigh any current issues. University of Limerick comes to mind. But abolishing RTÉ would have an exemplary effect on some other State bodies badly in need of reform. Even the HSE, a monster beyond all democratic control, might take notice.

https://www.irishtimes.com/media/2024/05/07/rte-reports-make-for-sorry-reading-but-can-the-national-broadcaster-find-redemption/

Kermit.de.frog

The only issue of losing RTE or a state broadcaster is pretty obvious given Ireland's size. Media is a very powerful tool and without RTE, television news and opinion here would be almost (if not totally) exclusively provided by other countries networks such as the UK. At the most fundamental level for the state it leaves us totally vulnerable to foreign propaganda essentially with no Irish originated alternate view.

There is a reason the BBC did nothing to prevent reception in this state since it was founded and especially during the troubles. We got good shows, they got to influence narrative and perception.

That would not be a good place for the country either in my opinion.

Caquas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122113950#Comment_122113950

It amazes me how, despite numerous posts on this thread, everyone assumes abolishing RTÉ means abolishing public broadcasting. Creating this identification between their organisation and the concept of public broadcasting may be RTÉ’s main achievement and its salvation.

I specifically said in my last post that ~€100Million should be provided for news/current affairs broadcasting. There would be no shortage of Irish offers to avail of that money.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122114415#Comment_122114415

Companies can already avail of public money and Virgin are looking for more.

None even come close.

Yiu scrap RTÉ and you scrap any semblance of impartially

Caquas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122114541#Comment_122114541

I'll just keep repeating this - abolishing RTÉ would not mean abolishing public service broadcasting.

Of course, it would not mean handing the licence fee to Virgin. Obviously, as I outlined a half-dozen times here, alternative structures would be needed to support public broadcasting, particularly news and current affairs. If RTÉ was abolished, Virgin would not need a penny from the taxpayer because it would capture all RTÉ's advertising revenues by running all RTÉ's rubbish (DWTS - there's public service for yeah!) In fairness to Virgin (like TG4), it runs a shoe-string news service which is reasonably impartial and even comparable to RTÉ News which has 50 times the resources. It is true that Vincent Browne was outrageously biased but he was always entertaining. Perhaps we need more of that and less of RTÉ's stifling impartiality.

No wonder our politicians have lost the capacity to take radical measures - Irish voters cannot even envisage a radical response. That is generally true of the major crises (e.g. housing, health, migration etc.) but it is especially depressing in regard to public broadcasting because it is an issue entirely and exclusively within the power of government i.e. there is no external pressure preventing the Government seeking a radical solution (the EBU might kick us out of Eurovision - bonus!).

Of course, we have a lame-duck Government comprising three parties with completely different conceptions of the State but I doubt if any Irish party could find the courage to do something radical with RTÉ. In Irish public discourse, the phrase "radical solution" is now generally taken to mean "more of the same but at twice the cost". For RTÉ, that means substituting exchequer funding for the licence fee, plus a bailout, to kick the can past the next election.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122116702#Comment_122116702

And I'll repeat that already biased sources already get a public stipend.

Without RTÉ you think that this bias would disappear?

FFS, you're campaigning for a system akin to the US. They have public service broadcasting but their news and discourse is so twisted that it's inflamed race wars

Caquas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122116736#Comment_122116736

You read my posts and conclude that I want a US style system. I despair!

The US government provides very limited funding via the Corporation for Public Broadcasting and the vast bulk of TV stations receive no public funds. This is practically the opposite of my proposals to subsidise public broadcasting. Either your ignorance of American broadcasting is total or you are unable to follow a simple argument.

If my simplest proposals are going to be misconstrued so badly, let me conclude with two provocative thoughts which are bound to be misrepresented.

• American TV produces most of the best programming in the world including many of the most admired/popular programmes in Ireland. Only British TV can compare. On the other hand, Europe is full of public broadcasters on the RTÉ model i.e. they produce little of lasting value despite generous finance by taxation and/or licence fees. Nonetheless, you (like most Irish people) cannot conceive of abandoning this failed model and, astonishingly, you think the worst option would be to imitate the American system. (Again, not my proposal but at least I don't suffer cognitive dissonance).
• I would have doubled Tubs' pay (and Dee Forbes' pay) and brought everyone in RTÉ on lavish freebies with the Barter Account if they had produced world-class TV. Instead, they produced nothing anyone wanted so they were both overpaid for what they delivered and should have been fired years ago.

tinytobe

I personally wouldn't see it as a loss if the RTE was gone. The RTE made a lot of strategically wrong decisions where the public now has to pay for it. They will always try to lobby politics that "everyone has to pay regardless if they have a TV or not". That idea particularly bothers me. ( The BBC ruled this option out as far as I know )

This would only split society further, the ones wanting the RTE for Irish identity matters etc.. and the others not wanting to pay for it for something they neither like nor want.

There is also the lack of choice of music on RTE radio, the complete absence of a DAB+ strategy like in the UK makes FM radio choice limiting. Opinions sadly differ gravely in Ireland on that.

The endless upkeep of the 252 LW transmitter was very very costly as well.

Caquas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122116702#Comment_122116702

I tend to blame our political paralysis and lack of innovative thinking on our clientelist politics but when Irish people are given a choice on this issue, the radical option is much the most popular. The poll is unscientific and those who want to defund RTÉ may have no idea about how to support public service broadcasting but this poll suggests that politicians could be radical on this issue if they wished.

https://www.thejournal.ie/how-should-rte-be-funded-6299202-Feb2024/

RINO87

Apart from news and sport, they should just show all the series of "Waterways" on a loop and the nation would be happy!! What a show!

TheIrishGrover

So here's a question: If they do decide to treat it like the Water Tax or similar or take a few quid extra tax every week/month then are they legally obliged to make sure users can USE the service?

I do not have an ariel so cannot receive RTE unless packaged with another TV provider like Sky or Eir or whoever. I have a satellite dish but no Saorsat decoder box. They have no functioning online streaming service. So, without additional costs to myself, I cannot legally get RTE, even though I ALREADY pay my TV "License".

I am not saying I won't pay, but, if this would be considered some sort of core government service/right then surely I should not be out of pocket initially. Of course if I start pulling down my ariel and dish and decoder boxes etc then that's on me and I believe I would still need to pay as I was initially setup to receive this service.

TLDR: If there is a LEGAL REQUIREMENT to pay this fee then there should be a LEGAL REQUIREMENT for users to be able to receive this service without extra initial outlay. Send someone out to install an ariel. Or send out a Saorsat box… Hell, simply create a service that allows users to stream all the channels covered or partially covered by the fee.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121894601#Comment_121894601

How many are pro Flat Earth?

Do we need a greater diversity of views on the whole globular earth issue?

🙄

L Grey

We'd lose all the baised news and discussion programs and the GAA matches that are still being shown.

I'd like to see more documentaries on Ireland, be it history, wildlife etc.

Maybe increase the coverage of what happens nationwide.

I'd also like to see a controversial satire comedy sketch show.

Thats wont be happening though as RTE is the broadcasting equivalent of Norma Foleys haircut.

RoTelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121978120#Comment_121978120

the orchestras bob? They only have one orchestra, and it like the NSO could move over to the NCH and be funding by the exchequre.

Local correspondents are few on the ground TBH. Don't mention Prime Time Investigates its RTÉ investigates.

They cut children's programing by 50% in 2016 when they said they wouldn't and then by a further 25% in 2017, they spend about 1% of their total but on Children's content.

GAA has been on a numerous other broadcasters of ther years.

RTÉ is not a public service broadcaster. It should be split up.

yagan

I can't stand the amount of property porn shows about houses only an RTE executive could afford. And more insultingly they tag them as documentaries rather than advertising.

techman1

THe state (government) would lose alot of its power and influence over the country. The state broadcaster is the means by which the state enforces its authority. If there was no RTE the government would never have been able to enforce the covid lockdowns and restrictions. It is the means by which it differentiates irish society from British and American (for better or worse).

Rooks

Its a nepotistic gravy train that mysteriously can't support itself despite having income from a TV licence and commercials.

Shut it down.

RoTelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058340216/what-would-we-lose-if-rte-was-abolished

RTÉ never invested into Irish talent, the last 14 years has been abysmal. I am a supporter of public service broadcasting but I cannot support RTÉ and its failures, massive change is required.

If I hear one more person point to the News and Sport I'll go ape. That's something as a public service broadcaster they should do! I work in my job everyday.

Defenders: -

Name a sitcom from RTÉ?

Name a drama from RTÉ that isn't a co-pro or an international title?

Name a quiz show from RTÉ?

Name a game show form RTÉ (not winning streak)?

Name something that you think is good outside News and Current Affairs and Sport?

thereiver

Alot of programs on arts culture. Tg4 programs made in Irish rte one radio it covers culture and current affairs political reporting imagine if the only tv news. In Ireland was made by tv3

Rte player has 20 years on tv drama comedy on demand rte sports coverage

rte employs 100s of people

Many programs made by rte would never be made by a private company who needs to make a profit on every program

Every Eu country has at least one non profit tv station

RoTelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122750027#Comment_122750027

Name one programme on arts and culture on RTÉ, there aren't many.

TG4 is not RTÉ, doesn't get the licence fee.

I will give you areana on Radio 1 but they've put it to the back of the schedule when no one listens.

Not much difference between VMTV ONE news and RTÉ NEWS imo. (Also you have Radio News via newstalk and local radio)

20 years on TV drama? really like what? And but what comedy?

Name a programme that would be made by a private company?

They do but they don't have RTÉ!

Rooks

TG4 doesn't get a license fee? How do they fund themselves? Their content has more culture and is better quality than RTE.

There's no defending RTE, imo. They're a relic of Haughey era corruption and nepotism. They belong in the past, not our future.

RoTelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122750388#Comment_122750388

TG4 is give funding from the Department of Culture/Media, I think got €50m this year, i think it increases to €57m next year, they also get some programming from RTÉ via News and Current Affairs (they are looking to move away from this), they also like all other broadcasters can apply for CnaM Sound and Vision Funding, while commercially they get about €6m per year.

They are relatively well funded.

thereiver

Look on rte ie player there's loads of programs the last comedy I remember was pure mule and batchelors walk .the great house revival is great .rte also covers alot of sports events .,

Gaa,rugby , Eurovision. .kin love hate theres plenty of rte made dramas .I don't need to list em all

Tg4 make good programs but they are in Irish so not of much interest to me .

Tv 3 is basically itv programs plus Irish news breakfast tv and sorts programs

I think it would be sad if rte disappeared and only tv3 or tg4 made Irish tv programs

I only listen to newstalk and Brendan O'Connor radio show I mostly listen to podcasts

Not everyone has broadband or cable tv

Alot of people just have saorview .rte also show a lot of movies and dramas made in UK or America

II think it would be sad if rte disappeared

RoTelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122751799#Comment_122751799

Pure Mule 2005 (20 years ago)

Batchelors Walk 2001 (24 years ago)

I will agree back then they were doing somethings, but little since.

Sporting events again, yes they cover them, very good.

Kin large supported by Bron which is in liquidation and RTÉ didn't consider investing in a 3 season because they didn't invest in the first 2.

Love/Hate 2014 (10 years ago) one of the last full commissions from RTÉ.

TG4 have subtitles and lots of English in those programmes (nothing to do with RTÉ, its a separate company)

Why not a new broadcast to take over from RTÉ, RTÉ are badly managed, they are showing repeats of The Summer Show on RTÉ from 2023 over the next few weeks!

VMTV and TG4 could buy any of those bought in shows, or a new broadcaster could buy them.

I was talking to a French friend and he was surprised how on Irish TV in the morning on one channel you have This Morning (UK) and on the other channel you have Drew Barrymore (US), and no Irish programming, I did say in fairness TV3 has Ireland AM prior to This Morning.