Should we regulate the internet?

10000maniacs

Fine Gael have damaged the country enough. They feel we are too stupid to handle cheap drink from the off licence. So they minimum price it.

They feel they can woke us out of traditional family values. They think we are too stupid to use the internet sensibly.

Reagan once said "The 9 most frightening words in the English language" "We are the Government, We are here to help"

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121899826#Comment_121899826

Good old Ronald, or America's Thatcher as I like to think of him...

Wasn't he anti gun control too? How did that work out for him?

jmcc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121900142#Comment_121900142

A lot better than it did for the Soviet Union. He survived that assassination attempt. The imposition of censorship is a distinctly Marxist response to freedom of expression. The Soviet Union used to have that kind of control and there were sympathisers and collaborators in Irish politics who wanted the same for Ireland. The Soviet Union fell and most of these people reinvented themselves as being merely Left wing and socialist but the authoritarian streak remained. Your wish to control what people can access is authoritarian. Your mention of state-approved media is straight out of the Soviet Union era. Wasn't there a rather laughable phrase "the dictatorship of the proletariat" that was used by those in power (the nomenklatura) there? Isn't this what you want to impose on the Internet?

One of the reasons the Internet has changed Ireland is because it changed the balance of power and allowed people to communicate. The politicians, their cronies, the subservient media and the Church lost control and people started to think. The old political certainty of a two and a half party system (FF/FG and the half-party Labour) collapsed as the use of the Internet in Ireland increased. At one stage, FF and FG used to get over 84% of the votes cast in General Elections. Now, they can barely break 45%. Trust in the state-approved media (RTE/Irish Times/Indpendent) is at an all-time low, Their audience figures and sales have been collapsing. The Irish Times used to sell over 100K copies a day. Before Covid, it was around 50K. Digital subscriptions to newspapers are not replacing lost sales. The Internet represents a loss of control for those who were formerly in power and who thought that they should be permanently in power. Your wish to impose censorship is no different to their desire to shut down debate and access to information.

You will, no doubt, be horrified to find yourself on the same side as Putin when it comes to censorship. He was KGB. Dictators always portray their power grabs as being for the greater good. Your censorship model has the same whiff of tyranny about it in that it starts out with "protecting" the children but would quickly be abused by the politicians and others, The reasons why your censorship model, your "whitelist", would not work have been explained multiple times and each time you try to deflect. Presenting it as being for the protection of children is a very emotive way of bypassing concerns over your censorship model.

Social Media companies have to operate within a legal framework in Ireland and there is content moderation. EU legislation that has been transposed into Irish law allows for very large fines. You have clearly shown that you don't understand Technology and the Internet. Your comments on the legal situation as it applies to Social Media companies indicates that you do not have any awareness or understanding of the relevant legislation.

Regards...jmcc

eightieschewbaccy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121900142#Comment_121900142

Pretty sure most people who don't like Reagan would equally view your idea as a poor idea. I loath Reagan for the record.

I also think you're not getting all the bad stuff off on the Internet. Most of it is out there and data hoarders exist. So teens might go down a lot dodgier path to obtain it. Education, supports and regulation of tech giants is what's needed. Infantilising all Internet users is not gonna work.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121900324#Comment_121900324

I'm pretty sure right wing authoritarian regimes imposed censorship too. Remember the book burnings?

What you're offering is an interesting aside but hardly relevant considering I'm not proposing to restrict adults access to the internet.

eightieschewbaccy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121900521#Comment_121900521

You can say you're not restricting it but requiring you to go to another setting to use is a restriction. If somebody was told they could only smoke in a specific location, that would be a restriction. This is no different.

jmcc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121900521#Comment_121900521

There's no difference between Far Right and Far Left authoritarianism. What you are advocating is simply authoritarianism. It is wrapped up in a highly emotive "think of the children" argument but it is simply authoritarianism. There is nothing liberal about it.

Regards...jmcc

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121900813#Comment_121900813

My apologies, age controls are technically a form of restriction. Much less restrictive I would think than blocking access but you are correct.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121901279#Comment_121901279

I hate to be the bearer of bad news @jmcc but by your criteria we're already living in an extreme authoritarian state.

I tried to bring my five year old to the latest Saw movie recently and he wasn't allowed in!

Will yourself and @eightieschewbaccy come with me to protest about this? Given how strongly you feel on your libertarian principles.

eightieschewbaccy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121902829#Comment_121902829

It's pretty restrictive if you can't access the Internet in your home.... Would you understand for the system to apply to all people including people who don't even have minors in their home?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121902859#Comment_121902859

This would be more akin to saying you can't watch the new Saw at home and would need to watch it in an authorized setting for fear children might access it... I'm far from a libertarian btw, I just don't favour draconian measures that would effectively decimate the tech sector and technology as we know it. I'm fine with regulating tech organizations with appropriate measures.

Yeah Right

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121898397#Comment_121898397

You said you don't see it as realistic that the only way someone who uses these supports can access them is online. The reality is that they are almost all accessed online, this is out of necessity. Restricting their availability will cause harm, much more direct harm than a few videos here and there, IMO. Your proposal of forcing vulnerable people to visit a government sanctioned internet cafe to access these sites just shows that you have zero insight into the plight of these people or the inherent dangers you are thrusting upon them. You literally haven't got a clue and you continue to demonstrate that fact every time you post on this thread.

As for being spied on by the government... They could do that right now if they wanted, what makes this any different?

They could, but they don't....plus, if they did, there's ways around it. The fact that you cannot see the difference shows you, yet again, don't know what you're talking about.

I don't see any social media sites really moderating content now, I don't think it fits the business model. It would be much easier to do on a version for children

Again, more ill-conceived, ignorant nonsense. Pretty much every site restricts and moderates content. All of them, even the 'dodgy' sites which show gore/death videos like 4chan, 8chan etc don't allow underage sexual content for example. Youtube pulls videos all the time, same with Facebook, Meta, all of them. But that's beside the point........you're answering a question which I never asked and you're dodging the one that was asked of you three times already, by my count.

You said: "I'm sure things would still be post (sic) on social media that shouldn't. If a site didn't react and take down the offensive content immediately, then they would be blocked." I asked you why you need to restrict 99.9% of the internet for this to become a policy. What's stopping this from happening right now? The answer, of course, is nothing. But you don't want to admit that because it scuppers your entire Maude Flanders-esque crusade from the outset, so you've invented a different question and tried to answer that instead (and failed admirably).

It would be much easier to do on a version for children.

How would it be easier? Why would it be easier? It's the exact same solution, no matter who the users are or the audience is, it would be no more difficult or easy to implement it. again you excel at showing you haven't the first inkling of how any of this currently works or how your solutions are entirely ridiculous. You don't understand the problem, you don't understand what's in place at the moment to address the problem and you don't understand the flaws in your solution to address the problem. You haven't a clue, basically.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121941151#Comment_121941151

I think the fact you're calling somebody concerned about very young children being exposed to pornography, and being bullied and exploited online, a 'Maude Flanders' shows how normalized the extreme libertarian position espoused by our friendly tech giants has become.

We're not talking about the Hays Code here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hays_Code

This is what we're talking about.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/sep/13/adults-are-terrified-of-talking-to-us-about-it-10-things-i-learned-from-children-about-pornography

I asked for examples of where people in abusive or coercive relationships could be affected by the type of proposals I suggested, instead you replied along the lines of 'well you couldn't possible understand'

As for government online 'spying', if one really was concerned about this the measures they would take would be the same in a public internet cafe as they would be at home.

Why would a child version social media site be easier to moderate? Because site owners could concentrate moderation where required most and set automated moderation to child specific criteria without having to consider the impact on a wider audience.

Yeah Right

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121941415#Comment_121941415

You're proposing a solution that is completely out of proportion to the problem that exists. It's the equivalent of using a nuclear bomb to kill a cockroach, and you're justifying it by saying "Won't someone Pleeeeease think of the children". That's why you sound like Maude Flanders. Protecting children is important, obviously, but there are better, easier and more apt solutions available.

I asked for examples of where people in abusive or coercive relationships could be affected by the type of proposals I suggested, instead you replied along the lines of 'well you couldn't possible understand'

You never asked me for any examples, of anything, unless I missed it, so please show me where. But here's your answer anyway.....Say a husband is a tyrant, controls everything, is using his wife as a punching bag and his kids' legs for an ashtray. A new website is created to assist victims in such cases, but hasn't yet made it onto the whitelist for whatever reasons. Maybe it NEVER makes it onto the whitelist. The wife/kids, at the moment, can visit that website discreetly. Under your proposal, they'd have to sit in the local internet cafe, if there is one, exposing their visit to all and sundry...."I see your Tomás was in using d'auld internet, Pádraig, what's that all about then". They'd need money to use it, leaving a trail in ATM withdrawals or debit card charges that need to be explained. And that's if they even have one. You gonna put one of these in every village in the land? Really? All 1700+ of them? Who's gonna build and pay for them?

I never said you "couldn't possibly understand", by the way. I said you currently don't understand, but you're record of being wide of the mark rears it's head again, so you've failed to comprehend the difference.

As for government online 'spying', if one really was concerned about this the measures they would take would be the same in a public internet cafe as they would be at home.

If one can use all of the current methods of circumventing the current safeguards etc., in your new safe spaces, then what's the point of the safe spaces in the first place? Plus, you're displaying your ignorance again of what is/is not viewable by the organisers/owners/people running these cafes. Think of it like your work PC. How are you gonna install a VPN on your work computer and, if you do, how are you gonna explain it when questioned about it? Yet again you demonstrate your dearth of knowledge on the subject with every word out of your mouth.

Why would a child version social media site be easier to moderate? Because site owners could concentrate moderation where required most and set automated moderation to child specific criteria without having to consider the impact on a wider audience.

Selective answering. Again. Notwithstanding that your answer is a bullshit response that couldn't be implemented today without blocking the vast majority of the internet, you've failed to answer how they'll do it. Because you don't know. Because you haven't thought it through. Because if you did, you'd realise how utterly stupid a suggestion it is.

corkie

Wasn't aware of this thread. And started a new topic in politics recently.

The Digital Services Act 2024 [EU] ~ Social Media and You in Politics

I will add a link back to here from that thread the next time I post in it.

As mentioned the law came into effect in February, but they have started to enact it more now.

EU Policy. Meta, TikTok, X invited to stress-test DSA election guidelines

• Meta, TikTok, X and other online platforms have been invited by the European Commission to stress-test election guidelines next Wednesday (24 April). The test, which is voluntary, will help prepare the platforms for the European elections in June, a Commission spokesperson told Euronews.
• Participants will work through multiple scenarios that could be used to address incidents, such as a disinformation campaign that aims to undermine the elections. The exercise will be used for all participants to explain their plans, procedures and policies in place and will allow the Commission to test existing cooperation measures and processes and identify gaps.

And Micheal Martin's recent rant on social media and children, has made it more political?

Rant [Slang]: - to speak, write or shout in a loud, uncontrolled, or angry way, often saying confused or silly things.

Rant: talk in a noisy, excited, or declamatory manner

Dick phelan

No because who decides what should be blocked or taken down. Places like China and Russia control their internet not something that a democratic county should be doing.

corkie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122040453#Comment_122040453

It is a bit late to say no, now!

Because they have already implement EU laws recently.

I'm concerned because I know what over regulation did to the Vaping Industry!

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/may/17/vaping-boom-and-bust-from-bans-to-starter-kits-how-the-world-is-responding

And no, I do not think children should be vaping, just citing an analogy!

Which was Micheal Martin's prior health crisis and he ranted about that as well parroting American Propaganda!

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121887677#Comment_121887677

What happens when I change my approach on my whitelisted site and decide to start publishing adult material, after getting whitelisted? Can I sell my whitelisted domain to those who want to get around the ban? What happens when my site gets hacked and somebody places adult material in there without my knowledge or permission? What happens when I move my hosting contract to a different IP address?

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121894312#Comment_121894312

Do you need to bring your own tissues too?

corkie

It is a bit late to say no, now!

I made that comment earlier in thread and pondered if there is anything we can do?

But is it to late, EU Elections are coming up and maybe we could question the politicians? On the topic and urge them not to over enforce regulation and take away our current internet liberties? ~~ Link

Someone raised a question of small websites they own, at the moment they are targeting Large Online Platforms, which means boards.ie is probably not restricted by the rules as of yet? Don't think the site has the number of active members anymore? And is moderated.

https://twitter.com/sharpmelk/status/1781384232129962360

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121899826#Comment_121899826

Yes you will find a lot of people "are too stupid to handle cheap drink from the off license"