Who gets what?

Luna84

I have no idea which is the correct forum but it's related to property so I said I would ask here.

Anyway I have a property with a mortgage(so technically the bank owns it) but if I was to die soon what happens the property? My mother said the state would get it if I do not make a will is that true?

NIMAN

First off, the state wouldnt get it. As you said, the bank own it, so they would 'get it' if anything.

Depends if you are married or have next of kin.

You should have life assurance policy taken out to protect the mortgage on case of death. Iirc they are compulsory so if you died your appointed next of kin would be entitled to it as the policy would pay off the mortgage.

Luna84

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121838435#Comment_121838435

I have no wife, girlfriend or kids. Would my mother and father get it so if I do not make a will.

banie01

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058338564/who-gets-what

Your estate would fall under intestacy rules as per the Succession act.

https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/bbc5d-succession-rights-in-ireland/

Calahonda52

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058338564/who-gets-what

You own it, not the bank, they can sell it to recover debt but they dont won it

Make a will, make life must easier for everyone

The ma is right if you are at the bottom of the list in this link

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/death/the-deceaseds-estate/what-happens-the-deceaseds-estate/

NIMAN

Yeah, make a will leaving it to your parents if you predecease them.

billyhead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121838467#Comment_121838467

He doesn't need one though. In the link posted above the estate goes to the parents anyway.

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058338564/who-gets-what

Technically the bank does not own it, you do. You used it as collateral to get a mortgage.

Lenders require an insurance policy with the lender as a noted party, if you die during the term of the mortgage, the insurer pays off the mortgage.

L1011

There are very rare cases of exceptions to life insurance being granted; in that case (or if you'd stopped paying for it and the bank didn't find out), it would need to be sold and any remainder would go to your parents.

mrslancaster

Yes OP, make a will and leave the house to whoever you choose or your estate could go to some family member you don't like or barely know (nice for them though). I know someone who benefitted in that way when an uncle who was estranged from the family died. He had never married, no children, no will. His parents and siblings pre-deceased him and his estate was divided between one nephew and one niece who had never met him.

Claw Hammer

Just because things pass a certain way on intestacy doesn.'t mean it is ok to rely on the rules of intestacy. When a person dies intestate the President of the High Court becomes the owner of their property. Anyone claiming entitlement has to apply to the court for a grant of administration and then apply for probate. It costs money and time.

The other thing to note is that parents often dies before their children. No one knows the day or the hour. It could mean tall property goes to a hated first cousin or worse.

The other thing that happens is that a person could come into substantial assest shortly before they die. It often happens people inherit from a sibling late in life. Less likely , put possible is a lotto win late in life.

Intestacy means there is no control over the distribution.

Another factr to think about is charitable gifts. People often leave money to clubs or charities or leave objects of sentimental value to a family member who will appreciate the.

Someone might leave €500 to my football club and my football pictures to my nephew john Bloggs son of my sister Mary.

It is simpler and cheaper to make a will and avoid hassle and make some provision for various eventualities.

beachhead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121839038#Comment_121839038

Make a will

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058338564/who-gets-what

Even if you have a mortgage, you own the house.

The bank do not own it.

Check the bank's balance sheet, there aren't any houses on it.

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058338564/who-gets-what

Your mother is wrong.

Your MPP will be used to repay the mortgage.

Any assets in your estate will go to your next of kin.

kerrysoul

Anyone have any idea how long probate takes once the application has been lodged and assuming no errors or omissions, Tralee ares

holliehobbie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121845424#Comment_121845424

Ages. Have solicitors on to me all the time saying there are terrible delays in the probate office at the moment.

kerrysoul

Why does it take so long for a very straight forward Will to get a grant of probate, in my case the assets are exclusively bank accounts and Irish PLC shares. The will doesn't contain any houses or assets that need to be sold. Evidence of assets clearly available and the will was drafted by a solicitor and there aren,'t any objections to it.

Claw Hammer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121843168#Comment_121843168

They only go to the next of kin if the next of kin apply for them. It does not happen automatically. The assets vest in the state on death which is the only automatic thing about it. After that it is form filling etc.

Toots

The easiest thing is to make a will OP. If you kicked the bucket tomorrow, it would go to your parents, but the whole process would be a lot easier if a will was made. I’m assuming you have life insurance from when you got the mortgage, and if that’s the case then the proceeds of the policy would pay off the mortgage. A lot of Credit Unions offer a free will making service with a solicitor if you’re a member with them, so it doesn’t even have to cost you anything if you have an account with them.

csirl

I think people on this thread are over egging that the state, relatives you dont like, the high court etc will get your house.

From what you say, you're parents are your next of kin and will inherit the house if your circumstances dont change e.g. marraige, kids etc.

My personal view is that if your estate is going to go to the people you want it to via the intestacy laws then why complicate things with a will? Wills are sometimes poorly drafted or vague. Someone can challenge a will in court (and the cost of the challenge is paid out of the estate). They cant challenge the law.

Claw Hammer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121857172#Comment_121857172

If a will is poorly drafted by a solicitor, the solicitor can be sued. DIY wills are usually the culprits when it comes to poor drafting. A will is much less hassle for the people left behind than an intestacy. If there is no will the family have to advertise for one, at their own expense, before they can take out a grant of administration. That alone will cost more than the cost of the making of a will, not to mention extra form filling etc. If, for example the O/p was survived by his mother and brothers and sister, the mother is the person with priority regarding taking out a grant. She will either have to take out the grant or permit one of the siblings to take out the grant. The result can be rows and delay. Nothing is simple in an intestacyjust because an asset will eventually reach someone, doesn't mean that it is going to come about in a hassle free way.

kerrysoul

It will surely take less than a year if the will is drafted properly and the assets are specified and there isn't any challenges etc

csirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121857508#Comment_121857508

Dont agree. Wills are not admin free - have to go through probate etc. Quantum of paperwork is not that different whether there is a will or not. A well written Will can still be contested - at the estates expense - by a disgruntled relative.

My motto is dont try to fix a problem that doesnt exist.

Claw Hammer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121858136#Comment_121858136

In general, there is less hassle with a will than an intestacy. Relatively few are contested and the apart from children claiming theyt were not provided for the only grounds are undue influence or lack of capacity or an estoppel (extremely rare). Leaving things to intestacy is essentially random since non one knows who will die first.

JDD

Yeah, as all the other posters have said, if your parents are alive, they'll get the house.

It's better to make a will though. Intestacy takes AGESSS to pay out, and it's a lot of hassle and paperwork for your parents. And god forbid, if you did die before them, it would be an awful shock for them. Anything you could do to make it easier on them (such as making a will) you should do.

In a more likely scenario, your parents will die first. If you've siblings, they'll inherit equal shares. Which you might be grand with. But then you've got two or three owners of the property and that just leads to fights between siblings as one might want to keep the house and rent it, the other might want to sell and split proceeds. It a recipe for making families split apart. Just make a will and make it clear what you want to happen to the house - e.g. if my parents predecease me, the house should be sold and the proceeds distributed between my siblings in equal shares.

csirl

Dont agree that intestacy is "random". The legislation is very clear as to who's the next of kin. Even if a next of kin dies, the legislation is clear as to who's the next in line.

There are many circumstances where a Will is the best option. Familes can be a lot more complex these days than the traditional nuclear family. But in cases where there are no complexities, I dont see the point of adding extra complexity.

Here's an example. I remember my late grandmother telling me various people were pressurisng her to make a Will. To begin with her and my late grandfather individually owned nothing of value. Both brought nothing of cash value into their marriage - jointly owned home/contents only ever had a joint bank account. She and my grandfather made no Wills. GF dies first. GM automatically becomes the sole owner of house/contents/bank account. No probate etc needed. A Will would have added complexity and hastle.

In time my GM dies - proceeds of estate automatically divided evenly between her children. Again no issues or complexities. A Will would have added complexity and potentially been open to challenge.

So sometimes intestacy works well.

Claw Hammer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121860642#Comment_121860642

that is very foolish and ill informed. No one knows what order people will die in, so the intestacy rules might result in an undesirable situation.

Importantly an inheritance received by a parent is taxable in the hands of the parent. The thresholds are cumulative. A house which is in any way above the average price will of itself exhaust the Group A. threshold. GM dies, D inherits her house which is worth say 500k. Tax due on 165K. Years later when GD dies and D now inherits another house. The whole lot is now taxed in the hands of D who is now 90 years old with one foot in the grave. Shortly after, D dies and DGD siblings now use up their Group allowance taking from Ds estate.

Proper planning and advice is much better than leaving things to chance. GD could have made a will leaving her estate to be divided so as to avoid the taxation altogether. Maybe you thging giving 33% of the value of a house to the government is a good idea?

csirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121865664#Comment_121865664

Not correct. Jointly owned assets are 100% owned by both parties rather than 50% by each and are never subject to inheritance tax as they are never "inherited" by the other joint owner.

You have to agree that the scenario I set out - which is a real one which actually occurred - is one where intestacy is better. While family relationships can be more complex nowdays, there are still a lot around with no complications and where the main assets i.e. the family home and elderly couples savings, are jointly owned.

Claw Hammer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121866269#Comment_121866269

I said nothing about jointly owned assets. The secnarion I gave doesn't involve them.

The o/p is talking about a scenario of a single person with a living parent.

You are relying on a scenario which happened to work out by chance. there were no premature deaths or tax complications. It doesn't mean that it will work for everyone.