Being your own accompanying driver on learner permit with foreign licence

tvc15

Friend is moving from a country with no license exchange agreement. They unfortunately have to apply, do 6 lessons and take a test.

No problem doing all that really but while awaiting the test, can they just drive around on their learners permit as they will have someone (themselves) in the car with them that has a full license

kirving

Edit: Please read below. This is incorrect.

Yes, once they do the test in under 12 months, and are insured under their foreign license.

If they are stopped during that time, they should give both to the Garda. ie: Allowed to drive under the foreign license, and any points should be applied to the learner permit.

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/travel-and-recreation/motoring/driver-licensing/exchanging-foreign-driving-permit/#:~:text=If%20your%20licence%20was%20issued%20in%20a%20country%20that%20is,(up%20to%2012%20months).

Calahonda52

How would the insurance work as if the licence is not recognised for exchange........

So if friend gets stopped foreign license will be produced?

On day of test permit will be required, which will invalidate the insurance in the case of a claim

tvc15

You insure the person, not the license. No false information will be given to the insurance company and all documents will be provided when needed. So if it's legal then insurance is not impacted in my understanding. There are so many here on visas that I guess it must be pretty common

kirving

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121793896#Comment_121793896

If you are in Ireland for under a year, there is no need to have an Irish permit whatsoever, but you do need insurance. I'm sure many insurance companies accommodate this.

If you are stopped you would just give the foreign license if that's all you had, but when you do get a Learner Permit, it would seem logical to me that you then intend to convert this to a Full Irish License in the near future, so you would be expected to hand over both should you be stopped. I have a US license in addition to my Irish one, but I can't hand that to the Garda if I was in a rental car in Ireland.

Why would it be invalidated on the day of the test? The car and driver would still be insured under the foreign license, they just happen to be doing a test that day.

GTTDI GOD

When a foreign licence holder gets an Irish learner permit, the permit supercedes the foreign licence, and they must follow the law for learner drivers, e.g. L plates and qualified drivers accompanying them, qualified driver is someone with Irish full licence for more than 2 years.

kirving

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121794196#Comment_121794196

Do you have a link which states that?

GTTDI GOD

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121794467#Comment_121794467

I am an ADI, this is what we are told, which we convey to the student.

Del2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121794467#Comment_121794467

Please note: Once you obtain an Irish learner permit, this will take precedence over your full foreign driving licence and all rules and regulations pertaining to the holder of a learner permit applies / e.g., display of “L” plates, must be accompanied etc.,

https://www.ndls.ie/licensed-driver/exchange-my-foreign-driving-licence.html#holders-of-driving-licences-from-other-countries

CramCycle

This bit is also important info, in case they don't know: On 21 January 2019 the RSA introduced a reduced EDT programme for foreign licence holders that cannot exchange their licence in Ireland. These drivers can apply to avail of reduced EDT, where they are now required to undertake a minimum of six rather than twelve driving lessons. They can also apply to be exempted from the usual six month waiting period before first time learner permit holders can sit a driving test.

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Calahonda52

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121794535#Comment_121794535

As a matter of interest, what documentation do you ask for on the day of the test

Calahonda52

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121794117#Comment_121794117

I don't disagree with you, but on the day of the test, will the permit be the valid licence attached to the driver and I have alway had to evidence my licence when taking out insurance, so in the event of a claim during the test once it becomes clear that it was a test...... given that the starting point is denial of claim.

If the tester was injured, I suppose driver could alway leave and let us via MIBI pick up the tab

GTTDI GOD

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121796726#Comment_121796726

The learner permit is the only thing asked for, and a waiver must be signed to state you are insured on the vehicle presented for test. It is of no difference to the driving test/tester if you had a foreign licence before the permit.

N.B.: A foreign licence should not be used once a learner permit is obtained! The only difference in getting a learner permit through a foreign licence is 6 EDT lessons, instead of 12, and you do not have to wait 6 months before doing the driving test.

Testers are insured through an RSA policy while conducting tests.

tvc15

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121795797#Comment_121795797

I'd love to see how this is handled in legislation. It does seem to be the only reference to this issue on line

GTTDI GOD

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121797032#Comment_121797032

https://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2018/si/450/made/en/print is the only thing I can find about it.

tvc15

https://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2006/en/si/0537.html#article17

That's the specific section for learners:

In this paragraph “qualified person” means a person who holds a driving licence in respect in respect of the vehicle category being driven.

(iv) vehicles of category B, C1, C, D1, D, EB, EC1, EC, ED1 or ED, shall not drive such a vehicle unless he or she is accompanied by and is under the supervision of a qualified person

I can't find a reason why holding a learner permit invalidates your foreign licence but I'm far from competent in reading legislation

GTTDI GOD

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121797222#Comment_121797222

Well in that case, why not listen to an ADI that knows what they’re talking about and dealing with this on a daily basis. Or are you going to be like the majority of the population, you know more than the people that deal with it daily?

niallb

Interesting that (iv) uses the term "vehicle category".

What happens if somebody has had a valid license for years in a category B vehicle but their license is restricted to Automatic vehicles?

If they apply for a learner permit to sit a test for a manual vehicle in the same category I presume it doesn't invalidate their existing (automatic) B license, but what would be the situation with their requirement for an accompanying driver? Particularly interested in hearing from @GTTDI GOD!

GTTDI GOD

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121797292#Comment_121797292

They would still need an accompanying driver in this situation. You cannot be an accompanying driver with a restricted licence (automatic) for someone that is driving a manual car. You can only be an accompanying driver if you are fully licensed for the vehicle being driven.

Del2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121797222#Comment_121797222

If your licence made you a "qualified person" you wouldn't of had to apply for a learners permit in the first place. Only EU/EEA licences are recognized as qualified in this country.

You can drive in Ireland with a valid EU/EEA licence until it expires and then you must exchange it for an Irish one. As a visitor, you can drive on a licence from any state outside the EU/EEA for up to one year, provided it's current and valid. However, once you take up normal residence

 here you must either exchange it for an Irish licence or apply for a new one. 

https://www.rsa.ie/services/licensed-drivers/driving-licence/exchange-foreign-licence

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121797292#Comment_121797292

They aren't qualified to drive a manual so would need someone with a manual licence to accompany them. Same thing if you apply for BE licence, you need a person with a BE licence to accompany you if you're trailer and tow car don't meet B criteria

Del2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121793896#Comment_121793896

They'll take the money for the policy. But when the friend needs to use the policy the policy it will be voided, they will only cover the 3rd party and recoup any money paid out from the friend. If they are the 3rd party their insurance will be voided.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121796549#Comment_121796549

IDP is only a translation of what your licence says. It's not a drivers licence.

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121797017#Comment_121797017

So you can come to Ireland and drive for a year on an Indian license no problem.

But once you are here a year / taking up residence you need to exchange the license - India doesn't have a license exchange programme with Ireland, so to get a full Irish license you've to go through the learner/provisional process and sit the test.

So after driving on Irish roads and getting experience for a year, you are suddenly put back to the status of a Learner, requiring accompaniment etc.

I know some sort of system needs to be in place but this seems a bit bizarre to me.

GTTDI GOD

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121797513#Comment_121797513

Yes, that is the situation. There could probably be a better system tbf, but it’s something for now

kirving

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121795797#Comment_121795797

Fair enough, but that is more utterly illogical nonsense which I guess is no surprise coming from the RSA. I'll edit my first response above as my understanding was incorrect.

It actively discourages people from getting an Irish license at the earliest opportunity and being trained to Irish standards, and given the waiting periods, leaves people in limbo for months.

I said above I have a US license, took me all of a few weeks to get. Sure their driving standards are lower, but I still had to do an eye test, 46 question theory test, and approx 30 mins practical test.

Proper industrial operation to get the job done, quickly, without artificially complicated rules.

niallb

Thanks @GTTDI GOD and @Del2005 .

Just thought it was interesting considering the text said category rather than specific vehicle.

“qualified person” means a person who holds a driving licence in respect in respect of the vehicle category being driven.

Del2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121797887#Comment_121797887

If you are resident you don't get a year to change that's only for visitors. Just because you can get away with driving for a year on a foreign licence after you become resident doesn't mean that you are driving legally.

I passed the driving test in a US State even after I drove on the wrong side of the road.

kirving

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121798214#Comment_121798214

I mean that's difficult to prove one way or another. NDLS say "On taking up residence" which to me isn't immediately definitive. Are you a resident if you hold an IRP (formerly GNIB card I think), or if you spend more than 182 days here in a year? When you move to Ireland? When you sign a permanent lease?

As I mentioned, the standards are lower in the US, but there are a similar number of steps and gates to pass, and process is so much smoother than the RSA bureaucracy mess. I worked in the west of Ireland with dozens of immigrants who moved to Ireland for high tech jobs, but then couldn't get housing close to work, but also couldn't get a driving test for 6 months so that they could commute.

Sure I was speeding for my Irish test and the guy mentioned it, but didn't care in the slightest.

User1998

I’d imagine theres very little risk driving unaccompanied with a foreign license. Just produce the foreign license if stopped by Gardai? Sure thats what all the Brits and Eastern Europeans do here.

GTTDI GOD

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121798323#Comment_121798323

Insurance! It can get messy when they have a learner’s permit, as the foreign licence is no longer valid! The “Brits and Eastern Europeans” have valid licences in Ireland, outside the EU and UK, they are not valid licences in Ireland.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121794196#Comment_121794196

Qualified driver does not need a 'Irish' Full Licence. It can be a Licence from the UK or EU.