Rent increase for new tenant

BtxKiddo

Hi guys,

I have a question regarding our rent. short story: renting same apartment in Dun Laoghaire for last 6 years. Finally we are in a position to buy a house and move in the coming months. our last rent increase was in January 2023.

As we are moving out, my cousin will like to take the apartment, if the landlord will accept of course.

question is: can he set a new rent as much as he wants or there is a law that is applying as a limit to how much can he rent to a new tenant once we move out? Hope this makes sense…thank you.

dennyk

If it's in an RPZ (which Dun Laoghaire is), then the rent he can set for a new tenant would still be based on the RPZ restrictions. This calculator will show the maximum rent that could be set based on the current rent and the date it was last set.

That said, if the landlord does plan to illegally increase the new rent beyond the RPZ limit, unless they're truly foolish then there is zero chance they'll agree to rent the place to someone who knows their former tenant personally and will easily be able to find out what the previous rent was, so likely it'll be a moot point anyway.

LilacNails

- wrong info given

dennyk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121783512#Comment_121783512

That's not correct; RPZ restrictions remain in place even when one tenancy ends and a new tenancy begins in the property. If it is a brand new rental that has not been the subject of a tenancy at any time during the past two years, then the rent can freely be set at anything up to the market rate, but if there was a tenancy at any time in the past two years then the rent for a new tenancy will be restricted based on that previous tenancy's rent and the RPZ limitations.

Buddy Bubs

My uncle sold an apartment recently, he used it to house his employees and don't really register the tenancies as they come and go. Anyway, his apartment sold as owner occupied and went for much more than another one in same complex because the new buyer can now charge whatever rent they want, the other can only increase by 4% or whatever it was.

So yes, new tenants are protected by this.

lbunnae

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121783512#Comment_121783512

No that’s wrong.

Dav010

If the rent is below market rate, it’s highly unlikely that the LL will rent to your cousin. It makes much more sense to allow your tenancy to end, smarten it up a bit, then advertise it for rent.

JVince

If you've been a decent tenant and can give a reference for your cousin and the rent is not to far off current rent, then I think there's a good chance your cousin will get it.

No agency fee involved. Reference from trusted person. No break in rent.

Chat with them and you'll get your answer.

meijin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121783741#Comment_121783741

And then the old tenant visits the property, talks to the new tenant, finds out the rent was illegally increased, and reports the landlord to RTB for sanctions...

I am not sure it really "makes much more sense"

Dav010

Have you any data on how often that scenario plays out? You seem certain.

cormie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121783741#Comment_121783741

Unless they leave it empty for two years, then they can only increase it by the 2% cap. So if the LL trusts their tenant and the tenant vouches for their cousin, then it could make far more sense to assign to lease to them. Unless by "Smarten it up" you mean do extensive improvements and increase the floor space by at least 25%, or the BER rating by so many points, or a combination of other requirements as listed here:

https://www.rtb.ie/registration-and-compliance/setting-and-reviewing-rent/guide-to-rent-pressure-zones

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121784770#Comment_121784770

Again, that really depends on how far below market rate the op is currently paying. I suspect most people here know the RPZ rules, and yet rents continue to rise in excess of those rules. Hence why I didn’t say the LL wouldn’t rent to the op’s cousin, but that it would be highly likely if the rent was far below current market rate, the LL would advertise the property for rent.

And no, I didn’t mean extensive improvements, after 6 yrs, in all probability the place will need to be freshened up before reletting. I’ve nearly always had to repaint after periods like that and replace items which are worn.

BtxKiddo

Thanks all for the replies. It’s fair to mention that the current rent we pay it’s way below the market…

cormie

Yeah most people here may know the RPZ rules but I reckon most renters outside of accommodation forums don't.

@BtxKiddo you can request with the LL to assign the lease to your cousin. If they refuse and you see it being advertised at a much higher rate than legally allowed, it's at your discretion what to do with that information.

3DataModem

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121783741#Comment_121783741

"It makes more sense to allow your tenancy to end, smarten it up a bit, then advertise it for rent."

No, it does not, because doing so within two years of allowing the tenancy to end is breaking the law.

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121786858#Comment_121786858

If you are going to quote a post, don’t edit it yourself and then put quotation marks after it, it is disingenuous and not what I posted.

It certainly does make more sense for the LL to end the current tenancy if the rate is considerably below market rate.

3DataModem

@Dav010 fair enough, edited it.

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121785671#Comment_121785671

So, if the LL having been very generous to the OP by continuing to rent "way below" the market rate wants to rent it out for market rate (albeit against the ridiculous RPZ rules), then the OP should just be spiteful and report to RTB? It's no wonder so many LLs are jumping out of the market. It's the LLs who are generous by keeping the rent low that get shafted by these RPZ rules.

Note: I'm not a LL, have never been and will never be.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121785671#Comment_121785671

In that scenario the LL may give the new tenant his exit papers and then sell the property.

It's definable a consideration for LL where a property is significantly below market ( greater then 20%). The only factor that may stop them is the capital gains, selling costs and trying to decide where to reinvest his money.

@BtxKiddo is it long since the LL has risen the rent. If is the full 6 years then LL can increase the rent by 15/16% approximately. He may be happy to rent it again at that rate. I would not be reporting him.

As rental properties are hard to come accross I definitely try to negotiate access with him. PM send

BtxKiddo

Thanks everyone for the opinions. At no stage i’m thinking to report the LL if he will decline my suggestion regarding my cousin taking the rent. Even if he will increase it slightly considering the market, will be a real blessing. i was just checking to see if he goes according to the law what are the options which considering that never was any issue between the two of us i think he might accept my cousin.

BtxKiddo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121786955#Comment_121786955

Never thinking to do that. I will talk to him reasonably and even if he will increase it but still below the market my cousin will take it…

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121784626#Comment_121784626

Yeah, old tenants are always calling by for a random chat, happens all the time.

blackbox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121788075#Comment_121788075

Collecting post?

Bass Reeves

TBH going back to create trouble for a LL who treated you well and rented to you at below the market rate for a substantial amount of time would not be in the phycse of many. There is enough messy LLmout there without encouraging more of them

meijin

Oh, so are you all supporting breaking the law by LLs?

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121788433#Comment_121788433

No one is supporting breaking the law, sometimes you just have to see the reality of the situation. Have you any indication of how often tenants revisit previous rentals? Personally I doubt many are bothered, especially if they have had a good relationship (as confirmed by the op). Also, the op is probably going to need some leeway on the notice period if he/she is buying a house, there goes the incentive to get involved in any dispute later.

Claw Hammer

The new tenant has to be told how much the old rent was. The rent has to be notified to the RTB on registration. The RTB are now chasing up non compliance with the rent cap. When a landlord is caught in breach they have to pay back all the excess rent to the tenant.

Kaisr Sose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121789158#Comment_121789158

Is there a source for that?

In my experience the RTB are very lax, with poor use of, or just poor resources.

cormie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121786955#Comment_121786955

There's too many factors of why the housing situation is in such a mess that it would derail the thread to start discussing them all. Yes the laws may make it more difficult for landlords to get a maximum ROI and some may decide it's not as easy to make a return as they thought, so they sell and there's less supply as a result. Market value in a market where so many are desperate for a basic human need, does not equate to fair value. The spiralling knock on effect of market value along with so many other factors has lead us to where we are.

You can't blame LL's for wanting to maximise their ROI in a capitalist World, but reporting breaches of RPZ restrictions does help to curtail a spiralling market value, which overall would appear to have a net benefit for wealth distribution and the greater good. The act of reporting could therefore be seen as a moral obligation and not at all as an act of spite, even though I'm sure many reports are done out of spite given the world we live in.

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121789551#Comment_121789551

I know a LL well enough for the odd chat. By coincidence, my OH was good friends with his tenants via school connections. The LL was charging a couple hundred below market rate for over 10 years.

He wouldn’t have increase the rent at all were it not for the RPZ coming in, as he knew he would have been at a loss and much higher risk when the tenants eventually moved out last month. The tenants were the type a LL dreams about. Always paid on time. Never gave any trouble and maintained the property themselves.

I’m sure the rent charged now is within the rules, but it would be nasty of the old tenants to report if it had been increased closer to market rates.

The RPZ rules are counter productive and have a negative impact on the overall market. Your earlier comment seemed to suggest that the OP should check the advertised rent price only if the LL refuses to rent to the cousin. Rightly or wrongly, I think that’s spiteful under the circumstances. I’m glad the OP has said they wouldn’t take that road.

cormie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121789717#Comment_121789717

I can't see much reason a LL would refuse to assign the lease to a cousin of a model tenant, unless they planned to hike up the rent beyond the limits. To say I was suggesting the OP do something out of spite is wrong. Some people may feel obligated to report it from a moral perspective, for the greater good.

Unless there's data to show the RPZ rules are specifically negatively impacting the overall market and not just that there are instances where they could have a negative impact in line with other aspects of the market, then that's just speculative.