Hydrogen Fuel Cells vs Battery Electric

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121790982#Comment_121790982

Read all of my posts on this. Goal posts were planted in concrete from the get go.

You hadn't a clue about these programs but chose to call me thick. I applaud your effort but it was misplaced.

Actually I'd go as far as say you haven't read any of my posts on it and just decided to throw goalposts being moved out there because you felt you'd lost out on something.

MojoMaker

As much as I hate to admit it, that does seem like a fair assessment.

'Tis the Boards way though - where everyone becomes a 5 minute expert on something every day.

Shoog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121790633#Comment_121790633

The Orkneys has a tiny population, smaller than Galway city, and has been used as a Petrie dish for alternative energy schemes for decades. It's had billions thrown at it to test the viability of new technologies including hydrogen - non of which need be economically viable to get funded and many will fall by the wayside as the data comes in.

Orkney is an interesting test case for how hydrogen could be used - but the reality is that most of the things tried there will not find real world buy in once the economic model is analysed. If Japan cannot make hydrogen work econically then the evidence from Orkney will persuade no one that it can transform the energy landscape.

Akrasia

Nobody doubts that Hydrogen could technically work as a fuel. It's the economic case that falls apart as well as the fact that it's way behind in terms of infrastructure compared with BEVs

For some use cases, where the infrastructure can be created on an ad hoc bases, H2 will be a part of the fuel mix, either as H2 or an Ethanol or Ammonia carrier, because a shipping or long haul logistics company can own its own fuel chain. And the plant and machinery is bespoke in a lot of cases, But for the mass market, it is not economical given the competition.

For long term strategic electricity grid storage, Green hydrogen will likely have a role to play in the long term, but that's a different sector entirely and it will not be cost competitive with renewable electricity from wind, solar, hydro or Geothermal

thehairygrape

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121789882#Comment_121789882

Interested that the ship itself is diesel-electric propulsion.

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121791567#Comment_121791567

Agreed.

As stated, certain areas a renewable abundant and can capitalise on that fact like the oil regions of old/current.

It begs the question how irelands national strategy in this space is so ridiculously delayed / poor. When we have strong access to specific geographical renewable spaces.

kaahooters

to mke it really simple

hydrogens too expensive to make, hydrogen schmes have shut in norway and belguim (i think)due to lake of uptake, think lpg, not really there, but much much more expensive.

hydrogen cars are mostly ev with extra steps, (hybrids effectivly)

ev have the opertunity to evolve and get better, were still in fairly early days of capasity and battery composition, room to grow and make more efficent.

now, hydrogen does make sence as a fuel storage medium for windfarms, run when its windy, power to make hydrogen, use hydrogen to power the grid when less renewas are an option, used insted of gass. but right now, it dosent make sence as a primary fuelsource for anything.

if you waant to know where were headed for fuel, look at teh us military, there planing on using microgenerating reactors to power ev equipment as it means 1 - 4 trucks for "fuel source" insted of convoys for fuel, be it hydrogen, diesel, or anything elses.

Shoog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121791688#Comment_121791688

To my mind the state messed up by allowing Eirgrid to dictate the roll out of grid infrastructure. They dragged their feet which put a huge brake on renewables roll out. They dragged their feet because the state had no overarching strategic plan for renewables expansion and they failed to address planning issues which allowed NIMBY's to throttle the major backbone projects which were needed for grid expansion. They lost at least a decade which they will struggle to make up given recent materials price spikes.

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121791761#Comment_121791761

Norway found huge new LPG reserves it makes sense for them to concentrate on that than anything else. There's always other reasons (value) that dictate policy.

josip

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121791944#Comment_121791944

Do you mean NG reserves ?

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121791974#Comment_121791974

Obviously..

kaahooters

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121791944#Comment_121791944

1. lpg is found as a gas, then put under pressure to condence it to a liquid, you cant find a lpg reserve, its a made product.
2. Norway has 80ish% of all new vehicle sales as EV
3. Norway, Denmark, and the us all shut they hydrogen projects.
4. just cos there selling gas, for heating to europe, dosent mean there using it a s a vehicle fuel, mostly eastern european countries that use it for fuel now.

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121795977#Comment_121795977

Ahh lad....