Smart switch for immersion

masterboy123

I want to ask if there is a WiFi controlled switch or a timer switch for controlling the water boiler? I have night rate electricity until 8 am and want to start boiler at 7.30 am until 8 am. The sink/bath switch doesn't do anything different.

I am attaching pic below:

The Sonoff POWr3 will do it. I have just ordered one for exactly that purpose. Couldn't get a local supplier so is coming through AliExpress.

Don't think there are any other reasonably priced alternatives, it costs about €41.

masterboy123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121778831#Comment_121778831

Many thanks. I came across this product on Amazon and seems easy to install too. Any thoughts?

Smart Immersion Heater Timer Switch, 2.4Ghz 40A 8000W WiFi Water Heater Switch, Smart Wall Touch Boiler Switch Compatible with Alexa, Google Home, Smart Life APP (White, 40A 8000W) https://amzn.eu/d/cOAwsmG

TimHorton

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121778831#Comment_121778831

Direct from Sonoff. https://itead.cc/product/sonoff-pow-r2/ref/3/

Genghis

I use a switchbot. I don't have that switch but I think it should work okay. You can try it on Amazon and return if not.

https://amzn.eu/d/38FCqSk

Timfy

I've had one of these on my Immersion for over two years now with no issues.

Works on it's own app or voice control with Alexa / Google Home.

I have yet to find a smart switch to handle Bath/Sink and just disconnected the sink side.

Link

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121778861#Comment_121778861

A minor concern expressed by some people with the smaller Sonoff units is the size of the terminal clamps for such a big load. That unit looks to have very small terminals.

Also the Sonoffs are easy to flash for homeassistant integration.

10-10-20

A note of warning here - any of the common immersions here are normally 3kW or 4kW meaning that they take 13A or 17.5A at 230v. For that reason the switch needs to be rated at 20A at a minimum and not 16A as some of the above.👍️

ongarite

This one is well reviewed & doesn't require a deeper 35mm backbox like most other smart switches.

HBN WiFi Smart Wall Timer Switch, Compatible with Alexa and Google Assistant, No Hub Required, APP Remote Control, Control Your Devices from Anywhere 16 amp 3680 watts (1 Pack) https://amzn.eu/d/7zh0bpn

10-10-20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121779500#Comment_121779500

That's aimed at plugged devices... you really need 20A to be safe.

masterboy123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121779052#Comment_121779052

Any tutorial video on this please?

And would this box cover the entire existing white switch?

And how to disconnect the sink/bath switch? Just tape it?

It's 40amp which is supposed to be safe, as highlighted by another user.

Thanks

masterboy123

€17.50 42%OFF | 40A Tuya Smart Wifi Water Heater Boiler Touch Switch Air Conditioner Light Timing EU Us Brazil Wall App For Alexa Google Home

https://a.aliexpress.com/_EjiYWGv

How's this one?

My main query is how to disconnect sink/bath switch?

CoBo55

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121778944#Comment_121778944

Surely you'll need a second bot to switch it off again unless I'm missing something obvious 🤔

reggie3434

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121780030#Comment_121780030

I use one too for last couple of years, hooked up to a hub and can use Alexa to turn it on/off and on a schedule. Bit of tinkering to get it working (goes up/down ok)

Genghis

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121780030#Comment_121780030

I don't actually use mine on switches like that (I have two and they are both used on buttons you press to turn on and press again to turn off).

However Switchbots come with adhesive tape that allow them to both push a switch down to turn on and 'pull' it back to turn off as @CoBo55 says above.

masterboy123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121779935#Comment_121779935

Could anyone guide me if I could install this Tuya Smart wifi switch on my existing old one?

10-10-20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121783483#Comment_121783483

Post photos of the rear of the new switch?

CoBo55

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121783483#Comment_121783483

The Amazon switch looks to be purpose built to carry the load. It replaces your existing immersion switch and you need to decide which element you're going to use as it's wired in permanently. As was posted already some of the switches suggested are not suitable for a high continuous load. Please be careful in what you choose as the incorrect switch could go on fire.

masterboy123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121783494#Comment_121783494

This is the rear side of the new switch. It has a load of 40A. Would this fit in?

Also, please help me out if bath/sink switch would be turned off? We only use immersion for hot water in sink and have another electric shower.

Many thanks @CoBo55 @10-10-20

CoBo55

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121784266#Comment_121784266

That looks perfect for the job. Using a phase tester on the existing switch find which wire is live when it's turned on to sink that wire goes into L load, live from the house wiring goes into L. Neutral from the house goes into one N and neutral from the immersion wiring goes into the other N. If you aren't confident fitting it see will a local electrician fit it for you as it has to be done properly as the load is quite high and in some cases the switch can't be seen if the worst should happen. Make sure that the other unused wires are taped back out of the way securely.

masterboy123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121784413#Comment_121784413

Thanks so much. I have ordered an electricity tester screwdriver 🪛 will be useful in future projects also.

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121785249#Comment_121785249

No it won’t. Always use a multi meter.

masterboy123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121785464#Comment_121785464

Multi meter seems for professional.

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121785654#Comment_121785654

amateurs are more likely to be electrocuted. Electricity doesn’t differentiate

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121785654#Comment_121785654

a voltage tester is just for checking if a wire is live or not and shouldn’t be used on wires or the likes with strong currents.

A multimeter is a lot safer to use because you personally are not in contact with the electricity, a voltage tester only works if your finishing the circuit by holding the top of it. Besides that the readings you get are more useful than “live” or “not” 🤣

CoBo55

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121786019#Comment_121786019

How would the amount of current passing through a cable make any difference if using a phase tester? Unless you actually break into the circuit a multimeter will only show if a voltage is present or not.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121786307#Comment_121786307

i used one on a shower once and didn’t rush to a second time 🤣

CoBo55

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121786391#Comment_121786391

Turn off the shower next time 😉

tomhammer..

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121779342#Comment_121779342

2/3 kw sink bath

You can't just replace an immersion switch with a smart switch . Doesn't comply with wiring rules doing that.

masterboy123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121786762#Comment_121786762

Even if the smart switch is rated 40A?

tomhammer..

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121786764#Comment_121786764

You've no local isolator for the immersion if you simply swop it out

The simplest way is usually wire in the smart switch or apt timer etc. before the existing immersion switch

tomhammer..

IE: a means of switching off beside the immersion heater so you can safely work on it

That's gone if you replace immersion switch with an electronic controller

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121786775#Comment_121786775

Except with something like this, except it’s only 13A

https://www.electricalworld.com/Mobile/en/ie/Timeguard-Wi-Fi-Contolled-Fused-Spur-Timeswitch---TUYA/m-m-10648.aspx?PartnerID=73&gclid=CjwKCAiA8sauBhB3EiwAruTRJl9g9edl4U0vMupCHyybssO9uLgv_q-rnBLLcUTHY8LTZswsU8MMZhoCyBYQAvD_BwE&utm_source=google&utm_medium=shopping&utm_campaign=Ireland

tomhammer..

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121786791#Comment_121786791

Ya that's fine for isolating a 13amp appliance

An electronic only controller isn't acceptable

CoBo55

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121786775#Comment_121786775

I'd be isolating back at the cu especially if the switch was being replaced because of heat damage (as most of them are replaced for this reason). I'd isolate at the cu anyway.

masterboy123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121786775#Comment_121786775

To work on it, i was going to turn off the MCB for the whole house. Would that be enough?

Thanks

I would definitely use a daisy chain of a physical switch after the smart switch. This allows increased versitility in use as well as extra safety. Most of these switches do not offer neutral isolation which is important.

tomhammer..

Simplest way alright

Controller or timer > existing immersion switch

You're keeping the sink bath changeover and the isolator

masterboy123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121788657#Comment_121788657

Pardon my ignorance, but could a timer be attached to the existing immersion switch? If yes, please share a link.

Many thanks

CoBo55

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121788612#Comment_121788612

I did notice that the neutral wasn't switched unlike the immersion switch itself. Would it really matter in reality? I wouldn't think so.

CoBo55

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121788533#Comment_121788533

The immersion should have its own dedicated breaker on the cu, turning it off will isolate it completely no need to turn off the whole house. Check and double check there are no live wires after you isolate, there shouldn't be.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121788859#Comment_121788859

In very rare fault scenarios the neutral can float to live voltages which is the risk. Anything that has the potential to fail and electrify your water is an added risk.

Read this from a British source (same as here), a double pole switch MUST be used;

https://www.surejust.co.uk/images/uploaded/documents/Immersion%20Connection%20Instructions.pdf

If anything goes wrong and you didn't use a double pole then you would not be insured and potentially could be open to prosecution. There is very little wiring wise that you are allowed to alter nowdays and if water is involved it is usually a legal requirement to use a qualified spark.

masterboy123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121788877#Comment_121788877

The consensus view is that it's unsafe to install a smart switch and insurance will not cover it. So I am stuck to the existing switch 😐

CoBo55

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121789366#Comment_121789366

No that isn't the consensus, you can install the smart switch before the immersion switch which keeps the double pole switch in the circuit. I removed my immersion switch and installed an old type 24hr timer which switches both poles it's ancient at this stage but is still working perfectly and nobody was electrocuted in 30 years.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121789366#Comment_121789366

No that's not what people are saying, what people are saying is don't remove your two poll immersion isolator from the new arrangement.

The concern I have is that if you are not able to answer these questions yourself - then are you safe to be doing this yourself. Its very easy to add a smart switch before the immersion switch - but if you can't wrap your head around it maybe your not the person to do it.

masterboy123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121789388#Comment_121789388

The question I have:

Is it a straightforward conversion from the existing switch to the new wifi controlled switch? Just like how I replaced the electricity switch last week and it was a very easy task.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121789521#Comment_121789521

No - because the correct way is prescribed by regulations.

masterboy123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121789539#Comment_121789539

As in to be installed by a qualified electrician?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121790377#Comment_121790377

I cannot find a definitive answer as to whether you can do the work yourself.

However what is certain is that if you remove the two pole isolator your installation will not be compliant with regulations and you could be legally liable if the property or occupants are harmed.

Personally I will be doing the install of my Sonoff POW R3. I will place it before the immersion isolator switch so ensuring that the required level of isolation remains and making my install compliant with the regulations which define electrical standards.

KaneToad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121782559#Comment_121782559

Switchbot will definitely do the trick. I have one and it switches on and off the immersion switch. No messing around with existing wiring required.

TheSunIsShining

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121790455#Comment_121790455

Quick one. The install means that you will be leaving the old physical switch permanently On I assume?