They lied’: plastics producers deceived public about recycling, report reveals

Calahonda52

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/feb/15/recycling-plastics-producers-report

Certainly makes you wonder about the RE-Turn system and a lot of our other processes: Big corporation riding joe consumer yet again

Norrie Rugger Head

Repak was always an absolute see through cop out.

Companies need to tax taxed on their packaging, hard.

Not, directly, at the till but as a percentage of turnover.

marathon2022

Big tobacco lies about link to cancer

Big energy lie about link to climate change

Plastic manufacturers lie

Big finance lie about everything

And on and on

Surprised, really?

alias no.9

PET bottles are just about the only high demand plastic recycling stream. This new deposit nonsense is taking them, along with aluminium cans out of domestic recycling bins. It has been worth sorting everything when there is known valuable materials in there but now the sorting of domestic recycling streams has been rendered much less viable. Domestic refuse collection can only get more expensive as a result of this.

blackbox

Recycling plastics may not be economically viable. This simply means that it costs more than using virgin materials.

This is no reason for not doing it.

JazzyJ

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121774340#Comment_121774340

Recycling should be secondary to a reduction in the use of plastic though. If recycling was not seen to be effective then there would be a greater call for the reduction. But that would mean less €€€ for the plastics companies.

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121774313#Comment_121774313

here in germany there's a pretty good recycling scheme. Beer generally comes in glass bottles. You can buy coke etc in recyclable 1ltr bottles.

It's not about recycling the materials but about reusing the actual item. A plastic bottle that gets 20 or 50 uses isn't that bad compared to single use. And a single use bottle can only be recycles once or maybe twice. And so a deposit return scheme can make a big dent in plastic use if it's used to encourage the use of multi-use plastics.

tom1ie

We should be using re useable containers for products.

For example- you want another batch of fresh orange juice? Bring your empty 2L glass bottle with screw on cap to the shopping centre and refill from a large vat of fresh orange juice.

Same for mi wadis, milk, carbonated drinks etc.

Ya want more corn flakes? Bring your container and fill them up at shopping centre.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121774340#Comment_121774340

Recycling plastics may not be economically viable. This simply means that it costs more than using virgin materials.

Why do you think that is?

Steven81

It’s very simple, give PP for example you could purchase that depending on the grade and quantity for approx 2 euro per kg for virgin. With regrind it has to be collected, possible sterilisation process, sorting process usually water baths, material is then either shredded or pelletised.

The density of certain materials are similar but have a different melt temperature making it a difficult process, PET is unique hence why it is easily recyclable.

if you look at a product there are numerous materials within, that’s why at times rather than segregating the materials it is easier to see how they react with each and make a product out of them.

MilkyToast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121774173#Comment_121774173

Taxing revenue might obfuscate the increases those companies pass onto the consumer, but they will pass them on nonetheless.

alias no.9

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121774340#Comment_121774340

Valuable materials such as Aluminium and PET have been covering the costs of sorting and recovering other materials. These other materials are much more likely to find new uses when they are already recovered than if they are aggregated with other low value materials. Removing Aluminium and PET from green bins will make recovery of other materials more expensive.

MilkyToast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121774638#Comment_121774638

I definitely think there should be more options to re-use packaging and to use more durable and re-fillable items, and I'd like to see more refill stations around the place. However, lots of families do their shopping online now - it's not really viable for them, and you'd have to have some incentive to make them restructure their week to include a 1-2 hour grocery trip every week (assuming they have the necessary childcare/transport to do so).

The refill shops are currently seen as a niche gimmick so their prices are pretty steep - especially considering the reduction in convenience. They would have to sell at prices commensurate with the reduction in packaging costs and then some to entice people into the shops.

Norrie Rugger Head

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121774731#Comment_121774731

Let them oass it on but keep hitting it as a percentage of turnover.

It has to get to a point where it hurts.

Why are onions sold wrapped in plastic mesh? If they MUST be wrapped why not cardboard strings.

Drinks companies started shrink wrapping cans instead of a cardboard wrap, a while back.

Bread has no reason to be wrapped in plastic.

Chocolate bars

Big box items packed with plastic stuffed boxes etc.

Styrofoam is everywhere. Should never be legal to send out

Doing nothing (ie Repak) is not working

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121774619#Comment_121774619

here in germany there's a pretty good recycling scheme. Beer generally comes in glass bottles.

How much is a crate of bottled beer in Germany?

Firblog

Reduce, reuse, recycle.

Don't think the govt have ever really tried to enforce the reduce part of that.

We all know (give out about) products that have far too much packaging Biscuits don't need to be in plastic trays, wash for windshields should be in concentrate not ready mixed etc - govt needs to put crippling levies on this practice, the product should be examined and evaluated for the min packaging needed, if the company making it uses more, then they can pay generously for the extra.

Tenzor07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121774638#Comment_121774638

Should do the same with clothing, get rid of Penny's eh?

Want new clothles, go down to the wool store, bring your needles and start sewing!

MilkyToast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121774781#Comment_121774781

Let them oass it on but keep hitting it as a percentage of turnover.

It has to get to a point where it hurts.

Respectfully, while this is a perfectly valid suggestion on boards.ie on a casual Friday morning, it's not a viable suggestion when you're crafting policy. If anything, telling people upon hearing that they've been essentially 'duped' into the labour of sorting plastics and papers and washing out yoghurt pots for the last couple of decades that they should suck it up and get ready for higher costs to fix the problem seems like a very good way to make sure that you end up in the mid-term future with a government that does not prioritise environmental issues at all.

As for the rest, I'd largely agree. I don't know if there are preservative reasons for any of the things you stated (though I do know that your bread is more likely to get mouldy if you leave it in plastic). But the key is going to be making sure that the convenience and price of items remains mostly the same for consumers, which will only happen if governments take action that will benefit both companies and consumers, like maybe a x% tax rebate/credit for companies that use more then 95% (or 100%) recyclable/biodegradable packaging etc. (with 'recyclable' and 'biodegradable' tightly defined and tested).

Norrie Rugger Head

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121774827#Comment_121774827

It's an EU level issue, to be honest, not state governments

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121774820#Comment_121774820

No that would be ridiculous

Padre_Pio

None of this stuff should be news to anyone.

We all know that recycling is a scam. It should be clear once you see that the waste you meticulously clean and sort is mixed in with the unsorted dirty stuff from your neighbor's bin. It's common enough that bin lorries will put household waste into recycling if one side of the lorry is full up. The vast majority gets burned in a furnace. "Renewable".

The rest is sent overseas to who knows where.

Mountains of clothes, tires, and electronics in some African countries. Whole landscapes are devastated by first-world waste. The whole thing is a scam. The deposit return scheme is another such scam. They're going to the same place the plastic bottles in your recycling bin are going.

MilkyToast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121774855#Comment_121774855

The same EU that just backed down on agricultural emissions because of farmer protests?

Top-down brute-force efforts on environmental issues seem extremely unwise, to me.

Tenzor07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121774856#Comment_121774856

Similar enough to going down to Dunnes or Tescos with a load of old bottles and boxes filling up the milk and cornflakes..

Kaisr Sose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121774788#Comment_121774788

Anything from €9.29 upward for 20 0.5l bottles plus 0.08c deposit on each bottle and €1.50 deposit on the crate

https://www.rewe.de/produkte/original-oettinger-export-20x0-5l/3733289

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121775097#Comment_121775097

Think I gave 11 or 12 euro. The last time I was over there.

You'd barely get 4 bottles for it here.

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121774967#Comment_121774967

No that’s not ridiculous.

Bring your containers and refill them there at the shop.

No waste.

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121774788#Comment_121774788

To be fair, the tax/duty on beer is a lot less than ireland.

I generally order a crate of beer and two crates of coke zero. This crate of 20 x 500ml is about 20 euro.

https://www.flaschenpost.de/p/starnberger/starnberger-hell

When I order them, they pick up the empties from the last delivery.

You can also buy beer and coke in crates in the supermarket but I don't want to carry them so I get them delivered.

And of course you can buy singles and return them to the machine in the supermarket afterwards.

Tenzor07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121775283#Comment_121775283

It's just not practical for most people, and stores that do provide this service currently are quite small and specialist, i.e. a LOT more expensive than Lidl/Aldi etc.

Do you really think that in a cost of living crisis as we have now that families who are struggling to pay the bills are willing to add up to 50% extra for organic veg etc. etc. ?

Kaisr Sose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121775156#Comment_121775156

Is that all you wanted to know for ?

Have you heard of google for answers to pressing information requirements?

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121775395#Comment_121775395

It's a discussion forum.

I asked a gentleman who lived in Germany how much a crate of beer is.

You decided to answer for him.

Now you are upset for some reason.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121775288#Comment_121775288

To be fair, the tax/duty on beer is a lot less than ireland.

That's the problem really, the alternative to cans of beer is bottles.

Bottles in Ireland are generally a good bit more expensive than cans, cans are already quite prohibitable expensive.

So the prices determines choice. So the normal course of action would be to reduce the price of the product significantly that is most environmental. 2 chances of that happening.

AFAIK in Germany the bottles are not smashed, they are washed, relabelled and reused.