New House Insurance Demand has risen by 48%!! Is this a new " NORM" with AVIVA

swoofer

I have 3 policies with AVIVA and over the years it has been good value but today the new house insurance has gone up by 48%!! Ben with them for years and never claimed anything.

As its 12 months since last demand has something happened that I am blissfully unaware of? I get discounts for having more than one policy but this increase may wipe that out.

baldbear

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058334368/new-house-insurance-demand-has-risen-by-48-is-this-a-new-norm-with-aviva

Just got my renewal with Zurich. Up 25%. Even got a text message warning saying the cost of materials has increased dramatically so don't forget to increase the rebuild cost. A cartel .

JVince

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121711302#Comment_121711302

How is it a cartel - please explain.

Do you have an inability to shop around due to a previous claim or other reason?

I got an increase from Zurich, I spent about 20 minute checking other quotes and saved almost €200. Exceptionally easy.

baldbear

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121711359#Comment_121711359

Shopping around is the only way. Very little rewards for loyalty which I don't understand. Got mine down over €100 with a few clicks.

I know in the past the EU commission has investigated cartel behaviour amongst the insurance companies here.

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121711900#Comment_121711900

I use a broker and they said that everyone is up. Very rare that anyone got a decrease this year.

ItHurtsWhenIP

Zurich jacked up my premium by 25% ... funnily enough, they also increased the rebuilding cost by 25% too, even though SCSI said the costs went up ~12% in the last year. The mafia wouldn't be that brazen! 👀

Spoke to a broker and got a much better deal, but it was still a slight increase on last year.

mondeoman72

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121714353#Comment_121714353

Costs went up 12% last year, but how many years is it since you reviewed your cover?

@baldbear

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121711359#Comment_121711359

@baldbear doesn’t understand what means. It’s that simple.

ItHurtsWhenIP

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121714441#Comment_121714441

Every year, which is why I'm very conscious of the SCSI guidance.

Berberis

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121711302#Comment_121711302

My renewal from Zurich was up just over 25% on last year. Looked around couldn't find it much cheaper.

Went online to Zurich as a new customer and got quote for same cover but at just below what I paid last year.

Got a call the next day and they reduced that quote by another €20 odd, which needless to say I took.

baldbear

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121714451#Comment_121714451

No need to be a dick.

coylemj

It's not a cartel. In most cases, your premium is going up because so is the rebuild cost. Insurance companies have no control over the cost of labour and materials.

For several years now, I have tracked the rate (per €1,000 rebuild) I am being quoted by the various companies when I shop around for my renewal.

Here is the lowest rate I was quoted for the past three years. This is the annual premium divided by the rebuild cost in €1,000s ......

2021 71.7c

2022 70.0c

2023 71.2c

Which says that, for a given level of cover, home insurance is not going up in price. If your premium is rising, it's probably because your insurance company has raised the level of cover. But if you get a renewal quote with a higher premium, even though the level of cover is the same or has not increased by the same % as the premium, they're screwing you and you need to shop around.

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121728407#Comment_121728407

Your home insurance cover is based on a rebuild cost you supply. Unless you adjust your rebuild cost upwards to match construction inflation (you should, but most don't) your quote shouldn't really increase.

The policy increases across the board from all insurers is cartel like behaviour absolutely - what justification is there for all underwriters to increase policy cost for a 300k rebuild now versus 5 years ago for example?

coylemj

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121728442#Comment_121728442

The insurance busines is between a rock and a hard place here. If they allow their customers to be underinsured through inertia, they're open to the accusation that they are not acting in the best interssts of their customers. But when they collectively adopt a policy of deciding to jack up the level of cover to realistic prices and increase the renewal premium accordingly, they get accused of being a cartel.

I just pointed out that the premium per €1,000 rebuild cost has not risen. So insurance costs are not rising, the cost of building a house has. Significantly in the past few years.

If you don't like the level of cover they're proposing, just ring them and tell them to put it back to where it was before. And live with the risk of being underinsured.

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121728548#Comment_121728548

As per your sample of N=1, the policy cost per €1000 rebuild has not risen.

And insurers would not be open to any negative effects if they didn't adjust premiums upwards based on rebuild costs

Reports from all underwriters show them making profits hand over fist also

coylemj

Reports from all underwriters show them making profits hand over fist also

Can you supply a link to even one of these 'reports'?

Cerco

The first thing to do is to check the rebuild costs of your home. The SCSI.ie website has a calculator which is free to use. You can use this and arrive at an approximate rebuild cost. Then add on some additional costs to cover inflation, special features additional item you want included etc

Now check a few insurers, including brokers, on-line with your information. Most will provide quotes. Narrow down the list and ring them.

Even contact your existing insurer with your lower quotes and tell them you are thinking of changing,

Good Luck!

peteb2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121728764#Comment_121728764

They already are. The Central Bank advised them they needed to take action to ensure customer did something about it. And so most have brought inflation protection back in by automatically increasing sums insured.........which they actually did 10 year ago anyway!

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121729689#Comment_121729689

https://www.allianz.com/en/press/news/financials/business_results/230217_Allianz-4Q-FY2022-earnings-release.html

look at investor reports from any of big insurers or underwriters

Allianz:

12M 2022:  

• Total revenues increase 2.8 percent to 152.7 billion euros
• Operating profit jumps 5.7 percent to 14.2 billion euros, driven by excellent performance in Property-Casualty and Life/Health business segments 

AIG:

"Delivered the strongest underwriting profitability AIG has ever achieved"

Allinall

Would you really place your house insurance with a company that wasn't showing healthy profits?

timmyntc

Zurich H1 2023

Lower than record of 2022, Zurich insurance business still posting half year profits of 2bn USD

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121730333#Comment_121730333

"Healthy profits"

I direct you to:

"Delivered the strongest underwriting profitability AIG has ever achieved"

Was insurance inherently unsafe before 2022 record profits being made? No.

Insurance is highly regulated like banks with the amount of capital they must hold so that they can pay out and won't over leverage themselves. You do not need a company making massive profits in order to have a secure home (or other) insurance policy.

Allinall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121730413#Comment_121730413

Where do you think those reserves come from, if not from profits?

"Massive" is a subjective term which means nothing.

What percentage net profit would be acceptable to you?

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121730456#Comment_121730456

Operating reserves are funded from revenues not profits. You do not need big profit margins to fund operating reserves.

Was insurance inherently unsafe before 2022 record profits being made? No.

Then the record high profit margins are insurers gouging us to give shareholders a little bit more back.

Allinall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121730479#Comment_121730479

I think you need to read up on the difference between revenue and reserves.

If you do not make any profit, you cannot have reserves, as all your revenue has already been used up.

Has there been any mention of the rate of dividends paid in the examples you gave?

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121730492#Comment_121730492

Increasing operating reserves to meet mandatory requirements is an expense, reported profit margins released in public accounts is net of this.

So when they report on record profitability it already includes any extra money needed to be put into reserve.

Yes, the reports mentioned also outline growth in NIAS.

Allianz:

Net income attributable to shareholders rises by 1.9 percent to 6.7 billion euros

peteb2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121730511#Comment_121730511

Upshot is they aren't a charity Timmyntc and they're entitled to make money! you dont have to insure your house!

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121735139#Comment_121735139

If you wish to avail of a mortgage which 90+% of FTBs will need, yes you do need insurance.

If you wish to drive or you are in retail you equally need types of insurance required by law. Are insurers entitled to price gouge for something that is a legal requirement in this country?

peteb2

that's a banks policy to avail of a mortgage. It's not a legal requirement as RTA cover is for motor. Insurers can charge what they want. EL and PL for retail also not required by law.

swoofer

Well as I had time on my hands I started a bit of shopping around and its ... interesting, that site for rebuilding costs is only for estate houses and to get a detached quote ... you get referred to an expert. Some companies have a max for contents. And some companies ring you instantly after you get an online quote asking you to confirm name, address, mob no. and you have not even accepted the quote.

All the quotes are cheaper than existing so that's a start.

I have a few more weeks to dabble.