Will Michelle O'Neill be the first Catholic First Minister/PM of the north since partition

Sunny Disposition

A woman on RTE this morning said she would be the first republican and first woman to hold the office.

That is obviously not correct, we all remember the delightful Arlene Foster.

But what she omitted to say was O'Neill would be the first Catholic. I'd be happy to stand corrected if there was a Catholic in the top job before, but I really don't think there was.

Sometimes RTE can be a bit tame about the north, but it is a huge moment if a Catholic can be leader, and I think they deliberately overlooked the significance of it on the radio.

Fr Tod Umptious

I think people now have started looking at NI as more than just Catholic or Protestant, and Catholic = Nationalist, Protestant = Unionists is an oversimplification.

O'Neill may be a Catholic but the policies her party support are ad odds with Catholic teachings.

Equally there are DUP members that have principles that closely adhere to Catholic teachings.

With the change in attitude to religion in both the north and south it's not as easy to put people in Catholic or Protestant boxes, even though religion is still a huge part of how the two communities developed and are identified.

Once again Rory McIllroy can be used as an example, brought up Catholic but you would struggle to describe him as a nationalist.

Wanderer2010

She will have to get a much thicker skin going forward and not wasting time and money on frivilous lawsuits against journalists just because her poor little feelings were hurt on social media. If she isnt tough enough to take online abuse shes not up to the job. The Shinners seem to want total control of the media questions they are asked and how they are portrayed i wonder why..

dulpit

It's probably better to say she's the first nationalist in the top job...

FrancieBrady

It's a massive day for all the Irish people who worked for it.

What was designed by skulduggery, subjugation and at times, force, to never happen has happened.

There will be much bitter raining on the parade but it will be water off backs. Another step on the road to equality and normality.

z80CPU

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121710354#Comment_121710354

And any sort of sensitive questioning as asked by the substitute host on today with Sarah mcinerney are just answered with a great big

DEFLECT

In this case a rather stupid question was put to to Pádraig about how the Jeffery Donaldson will feel now

And, predictably of course

Padraic simply

DEFLECTS

dxhound2005

Normal will include her using the name of the country she is the head of. Which seems not to be much of an issue for her? But her party hardliners from the Six Counties and the Twentysix Counties will probably never do it.

May 2022.

Sinn Féin vice-president Michelle O'Neill has said she does not get "too hung up" on what she calls Northern Ireland.

Ms O’Neill, who said she uses the term “North of Ireland” but referred to “Northern Ireland” in the Assembly earlier this month, said people should be “a bit relaxed about those things”.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121710197#Comment_121710197

Good take on these matters  & nail on the head.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121710430#Comment_121710430

It'll be a good photo op and bit of press for a few days. But really Francie, it would suit SF better to have a dysfunctional administration that they can point to as the failings of partition etc etc. I expect shenanigans to come and they'll be looking for another way to play the blame game and pin a walk out on the DUP.

The DUP will presumably be alive to this and try to avoid falling for it, if/ when Stormont falls again they'll be wanting to lay the blame firmly on SF.

So we may expect a lot of jockeying and maybe little enough being done after a while.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121710545#Comment_121710545

I don't and never have denied it is a failed statelet Furze. I don't expect it ever to be fixed so the sooner that is admitted and we look seriously at the fundamental cause - Partition, the better for all of us, here and in Britain and even further afield.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121710568#Comment_121710568

But that's not how it's going to pan out is it Francie? The unionist strategy now is to make sure that the people of NI feel that it is a good place to live, that there are benefits accruing to them from both London and Dublin, that they wouldn't get in any UI. The strategy will be to make the statelet as you put it, successful.

That's throwing down the gauntlet to SF - let's make this place work together etc will be the PR message.

And there are undeniable benefits to NI residents if they play the system smartly. Likewise partition may be odious down south here but the border also has it's practical benefits for us too. I saved €500 on coal this winter for example so far.

Sunny Disposition

When I arrived in the north in the 60s it was unthinkable that the place could be led by a Catholic. Things have come very far.

This is going to be a seriously bitter pill for many Protestants. The anti Catholic thing is bad enough, but O'Neill is also SF. The whole thing is genuinely devastating for lots of Protestants, but they've no option but to accept it.

Southerners might think it's a bit more evolved now, but basically Catholic does equal nationalist and Protestants are unionists. Of course there are exceptions but very few really. It's not like the FF-FG allegiances 30-40 years ago, it's way deeper.

In fairness to SF they haven't been crowing about breaking the sectarian ceiling, which is the right way for them to behave. There's no good in rubbing salt in the wounds.

I dunno how Donaldson can stomach going back to Stormont, I assumed they'd never go back prior to another election, and they'd at least have another go at finishing ahead of SF. It is going to be a seriously dark day for him. It's hard to see much point to Northern Ireland existing if the Taigs are going to be at the top table;) This is also very negative for dissident gobsh!tes, no one can realistically say Catholics are second class if a Catholic is first minister.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121710618#Comment_121710618

You mean Unionism have had a Paulian moment and will drop their blocking of agreed rights? Stop trying to get a return of their veto?

Really? You bought the 'let's make this place work all' line?

Ok. We'll see soon enough.

EmmetSpiceland

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121710630#Comment_121710630

Couldn’t agree more, Bob. It’s a notable event but it’s just going to attract a certain “type” that would be better suited over there.

Sunny Disposition

It'd be better if everyone tried to make the place work. It's actually the best strategy for all sides. It's the only hope for unionists really, the numbers are not going in their direction. For SF etc, the opposition mightn't be as severe in 10-20 years if people can get on a bit.

SF will never admit it, but their glorious campaign only hardened attitudes, it really set Protestants against a united Ireland. I used to walk from the Falls to the Shankill before the Troubles with very few concerns. Afterwards there was real hatred of everything Catholic and Irish.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121710676#Comment_121710676

The 'one community was responsible for what happened in the north' theory is really worn out at this stage.

Also bizarre that you think 'real hatred of everything Catholic and Irish' only emerged AFTER the conflict/war. Go read up on why the conflict/war started in the first place.

artanevilla

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121710354#Comment_121710354

Online abuse is not acceptable for anyone in any profession, please don't normalize it.

EmmetSpiceland

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121710354#Comment_121710354

It’s a worrying trait common with both the shinners and the far-right.

Both want to stifle the media, particularly RTÉ. They just want a curtailed news broadcast and a couple of shows like ‘Nationwide’ broadcast.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121710676#Comment_121710676

That will be the unionist strategy, it's the best hope going forward to protect their interests. Make the place work, let people feel they have a good deal and benefiting from being in the UK (& EU by the back door). So that if any talk of a border poll emerges, the plain people will just go 'nah, we have it too good'!

The Shinners have a choice of either joining in the game and cultivating an image of success and power and 'sure, shouldn't you just join us across the border' or keeping NI a poxy place place to live with the message 'you'll be better off in a UI'.

Direct rule doesn't really suit either.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121711173#Comment_121711173

That will be the unionist strategy,

What you are announcing here is a complete volte face from how they have behaved over the last 100 years.

Can't wait to see it in action tbh.

Sunny Disposition

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121710766#Comment_121710766

Hah? I never said only one community was responsible for the conflict. But the IRA certainly played a major part in the whole thing, and it didn't help the campaign for ending partition.

No doubt there was some hatred of Catholics earlier, but it definitely went up several notches when the violence kicked off, that was my experience of Belfast in the 60s and 70s. I'd be very surprised if anyone of my age who was there disagreed.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121711220#Comment_121711220

What do ya mean Francie? Unionism has always sought to make the six counties a comfortable place for themselves. This has previously been at the expense of others.

All they are adjusting to now, is the idea of making the six counties a comfortable place for themselves, whilst rubbing along with the neighbours.

Disaster for unionism would be having to join a UI and they have every right to be deeply suspicious of same given the evidence of the last 100 years.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121711334#Comment_121711334

Thank you for letting me live normally in my own city is it?

What you think enabled gerrymandering, and the deprivation of rights I shudder to think tbh.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121711362#Comment_121711362

So we'll see how they do that I suppose Furze.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058334337/will-michelle-oneill-be-the-first-catholic-first-minister-pm-of-the-north-since-partition

I know you are a fanatical fan of Rome but NI has very little to do with religion these days. There are very few "staunch" Catholics in Ireland these days. Very few people that believe the bible or Rome's teaching or practice on a regular basis. Many people do see the damage that religion and the warped power associated with it caused on our island over the past few decades but thankfully we have moved past it although many survivors are still suffering.

mikethecop

a puppet for the army council

neither she nor mlm can make a move or express an opinion with out checking with them first

have a look around the world and see what happens when terrorists and organized crime gangs get into government ...

EmmetSpiceland

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121711334#Comment_121711334

The British played a major part in how the IRA conducted themselves. It’s estimated that half of the senior figures in the IRA were working for the Brits during the height of the troubles.

Sunny Disposition

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121711373#Comment_121711373

Genuinely don't know what you mean?

mikethecop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121711514#Comment_121711514

its the brits fault that the ira murdered and maimed so many innocents ?

keep pushing that emmet , its the attitude that will keep shinners out of government for another generation or two hopefully :-)

cnoc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121711514#Comment_121711514

What evidence do have about half of the senior IRA figures were working for the Brits?

dulpit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121711450#Comment_121711450

What about Cumann na nGaedheal and Fianna Fáil governments of the 20s, 30s and 40s?

65535

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058334337/will-michelle-oneill-be-the-first-catholic-first-minister-pm-of-the-north-since-partition

I don't know how there is such a lack of historical understanding.

The place that is called 'Northern Ireland' is and was a Gerrymandered 6 county statelet constructed purely for to be a 'Protestant place for a Protestant people'.

When that was in danger, there were progroms against those who identified as Catholic.

The leader of the Irish Unionist Party and and Ulster Unionist Party, Dubliner Edward Carson was famously quoted as saying -

What a fool I was! I was only a puppet, and so was Ulster, and so was Ireland, in the political game that was to get the Conservative Party into Power.

Wanderer2010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121710795#Comment_121710795

Its a fact of life. She should be aware of it after all her years in office. Horrible things are going to be said about her policy, actions and even appearance. That wont change. She doesnt have to look at it or "do something" about it unless she wants to chase shadows the rest of her life. She needs to get on with the job and not react to every single thing.

arctictree

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058334337/will-michelle-oneill-be-the-first-catholic-first-minister-pm-of-the-north-since-partition

We really need to tone down the whole Catholic/Protestant thing. I have lots of friends/colleagues who I have no idea what religion they are. Michelle O'Neill is a nationalist and her religion is really of no concern. Title of this thread should be changed.

mikethecop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121711872#Comment_121711872

have a look at hamas ....

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121712074#Comment_121712074

The same hamas that Gerry Adams was cuddly with?

Those National Socialists choose their bed-fellows well. Always on the wrong side of history though, from the Nazis to East Germany to Libya to North Korea to FARC.

Larbre34

This talk is all pedantry.

The main takeaway is that tomorrow, whatever way you slice it, the Sun will set on this nation under the leadership of entirely democratically elected Irish nationalists, for the first time in history.

Certainly since the advent of parliamentary democracy and arguably since the last High King who commanded the loyalty of all the important Lords, Ruairí Ó Conchúir in the late 12th Century.

Obviously its not the end of the journey, but its a massive milestone nonetheless.

rowantree18

How does anyone know if she's catholic or religious at all......I hate the religious divide in the 4th field. I prefer to go by Unionist or Irish/nationalist/republican. Surely we've moved on from it being a religious thing.

I identify with no church or religion but would love to see a reunited Ireland in my lifetime.

Water John

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121712606#Comment_121712606

Quite right, but what we do know is that she's a Cork woman. Pity MM isn't Taoiseach ATM, then Cork would be running the country.

Larbre34

Pity?

We'd never hear the jaysis end of it.

Sunny Disposition

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121712049#Comment_121712049

There is a huge divide based on religion in the North. That is just reality.

The title of the thread is entirely appropriate. A Catholic being first minister of Northern Ireland is a big moment in history.

It was quite farcical that on RTE they said incorrectly that O’Neill would be the first female first minister, but never mentioned her being the first Catholic. Maybe you were the journalist in question artictree? Only messing:)

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121710634#Comment_121710634

The question is though what happens if devolution beds down this time and NI actually becomes a functioning entity? Here's a question from the Institute of Irish Studies (University of Liverpool) poll of 2022:

"If devolved politics worked better people would focus less on the constitutional question"

66% of Nationalists polled agreed with this statement. Is this a potential double edged sword for SF if their end goal is a UI?

Sunny Disposition

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121714454#Comment_121714454

Not incorrect. But it’s also possible that if sectarianism becomes less potent unionist resistance to the frankly sensible idea of a united Ireland will lessen.

Tbh the most likely scenario is more division and NI continuing to be dysfunctional.

Montage of Feck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121710362#Comment_121710362

But she isn't the first O'Neill.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121714475#Comment_121714475

But that's the problem isn't it? Are Unionists ever going to see the prospect of a UI as "frankly sensible"? A UI to me always seems to be something forever over the next hill. Look at the excitement that happened immediately post Brexit. Because NI voted Remain, some folk thought this would translate into support for a UI as people (mistakenly) conflated this with being pro EU. It turned out the polling on attitudes to a UI was little affected in the long term.

Sunny Disposition

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121714517#Comment_121714517

I’d say it is unlikely (not impossible). The north is probably going to remain divided along sectarian lines for decades to come.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121714753#Comment_121714753

I think it is quite likely the divide will continue with someone like Michelle O'Neill as First Minister, given who control her and her past attendance, sometimes speaking, at events commemorating IRA members.  If the boot was on the other foot it would be like the unionists electing and having as First Minister someone who speaks at events commemorating Loyalist paramilitary members. Time will tell if she can be a First Minister for all.

landofthetree

If you support abortion you're not a Catholic.

dulpit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121715349#Comment_121715349

Relevant how?

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121715349#Comment_121715349

Her and her parties best friend in the States, President Biden has directed his administration to protect access to abortion, yet he would call himself a Catholic. If you are from N. I. landofthetree, you should consider voting DUP, like some other catholics do, as the DUP describes itself as being a pro-life party.;)

landofthetree

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121716077#Comment_121716077

Im not a Catholic.

O'Neill isnt one either.

csirl

I dont agree with the catholic v protestant designation. Its a difference in political outlook i.e. nationalist or unionist, that is the divide. Even in the unlikely event that one or other side converted en mass to the other religion or everyone became a different religion or none, the difference in political viewpoint would remain.