Miners Strike 1984

Quitelife

Gripping part 2 of Miners Strike 1984 just over on channel 4 showing lots of police brutality against striking miners in England from 40 years ago , it seems Margaret Thatcher was determined to smash the English working class which never recovered from what happened in that strike , meanwhile Thatcher and her Tory backers got very rich from privatisation, cheap foreign labour etc .

Birneybau

It's on here and in general, it's a fantastic totally free streaming service (with a few ads)

https://www.channel4.com/

A2LUE42

It was a very turbulent time. The killing of David Wilkie always stands out in my mind. No idea why that one in particular.

scudzilla

it was a mad time, i grew up on North Wales, at the time South Wales was destroyed, whole villages were affected overnight as nearly all the inhabitants were employed directly by the mine, others relied on the miners spending, and when they didn't have money obviously couldn't spend.

My dad used to watch the news every night and every night you'd see footage of police beating up miners, they'd get a few scabs go in to work and they'd protect them, strikers were trying to stop scabs getting in but were destroyed by Thatchers private army (police).

Its well documented that a lot of the police, who came in from as far away as London to the welsh and Yorkshire mines, were able to afford to buy houses with the overtime they earned from this.

This was one of the main reasons why Thatchers death was celebrated in Yorkshire and The Valleys

Gloomtastic!

And then you had Arthur Scargill.

Like all heads of trade unions he started off with a small house and a big trade union and ended up with a big house (paid for by stealing donations from Libya and Russia to the striking miners) and a small trade union.

Never, ever trust a socialist.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Scargill

Str8outtaWuhan

Unions infiltrated by USSR thatcher did the right thing.

scudzilla

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121709234#Comment_121709234

No she didn't, she destroyed towns, communities and families, what she did was horrendous.

Quitelife

Thatcher was a nasty lady, not content with attacking the Nationalists of Northern Ireland she destroyed so many working class towns and villages of England & Wales , she was only ever concerned with London & her wealthy Tory buddies .

z80CPU

Thatchers right hand man was norman Tebbit

His solution to self improvement was to "Get on your bike", well, because that's what Tebbit's dad did!

Pr|ck

It just shows how society has moved on, the police beating the head of someone would be an outrage today, the police occupy a much more contested place in UK society than they do in Ireland.

Fallout2022

She had a years reserve of coal to fuel the nation built up before she took them on. So the strikes were never going to work anyway. Would never lead to shortages. The workers and unions would eventually run out of money. It was a very deliberate, surgical and ruthless take-down.

scottser

It's a pity the IRA never got her at Brighton.

I.R.Y.E.D

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121712980#Comment_121712980

There are a good few British people who agree.

ancapailldorcha

It's a classic case of the cure being worse than the disease. Heavy industry like mining was never going to be sustainable in a globalised world. Thatcher of course was a staunch market liberal and believed in letting the market take over, ie letting these places rot. There's a reason that most of Northern Europe's poorest areas are in the UK.

cheese sandwich

Very good series. Thatcher was a vicious woman who carried out class warfare on the miners. But the NUM was terribly led by Scargill who was more interested in fighting a political battle with the Conservatives than in working for his members

L.Ball

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121709232#Comment_121709232

He wasn't a real socialist, real socialism has never been tried.

Duke of Schomberg

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121712980#Comment_121712980

Wasn't exactly a surgical strike was it? - a typical cowardly IRA action that put the lives of many innocents at risk.

The miners' strike wasn't just about jobs it was about whole communities that were built around the pits - the pits provided the jobs (and the jobs supported the shops and pubs), and the National Coal Board provided the houses. Visit these communities now - once proud (but rough) places, they are desolate.

Arthur Scargill knew what was coming, but why he played his hand the way he did - when he would have had a lot of support - is beyond me. West Yorkshire/South Yorkshire/Derbyshire/Nottinghamshire/Leicestershire/Lancashire constabularies (in whose force areas the strikes took place) would have had many officers who were sympathetic to the miners, which is why officers were bussed in from areas outside mining communities (such as the Metropolitan Police, which unlike other constabularies was not then under local control but under the control of the Home Office).

gmisk

Watched all three episodes really well done documentary, only really knew the basics so found it really interesting. Coincidentally re-watched the excellent Pride recently which has some cross over.

NewbridgeIR

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121710047#Comment_121710047

The IRA bombed the Grand Hotel in Brighton, October 1984. Morrissey subsequently praised the bombers.

Also worth a listen - https://www.rte.ie/culture/2023/0818/1399362-how-the-smiths-irish-tour-turned-incendiary-documentary-on-one/

Hamsterchops

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058334296/miners-strike-1984

You say "it seems Margaret Thatcher was determined to smash the English working class" but as I remember it Mrs T was out to smash the grip of the Trade Unions, and in particular the NUM (National Union of Mineworkers) headed by Arthur Scargill, who detested Mrs Thatch, herself being the daughter of a shopkeeper as far as I recall. Not sure she was anti working class though, as she wanted people in council houses to have the opportunity to actually purchase them from the council. Admittedly she was very heavy handed when it came to battling with the NUM, and in particular Mr Scargill.

I remember the police horses charging.....

Slightly Kwackers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121709263#Comment_121709263

She was right to a point, but went too far.

I don't think miners were treated that badly, they were well paid in comparisin to myseld anyway. Friends that left school in the seventies were on five times what I was paid for full time work.

The miners were seen as a threat when Heath went to the country. There was a three day week because of the energy crisis and the miners saw their opportunity so along came the three day working week and Heath went to the country rather than submit to blackmail from the miners unions.

The great British public don't like discomfort and didn't like the cut in pay either, so they ousted Heath and put in Laboutr who paid up and ended the strike.

That was the worst move the voters would make until Brexit.

Some unions misused their power and Maggie waded in. Her remedy was well over the top, she hated unions and what the miners did.

The UK is still paying a heavy price for Maggies approach.

Atlantic Dawn

Very well done, without the video evidence the accused miners would likely have been jailed for rioting.

beachhead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121713239#Comment_121713239

Including a lot of pensioners

donaghs

If Thatcher hadn’t taken on the Miners Union, how much longer would coal mining have persisted in the UK?

Coal miners mining was increasingly unprofitable and reliant on government subsidies. Coal usage was in decline, and there were cheaper imports undercutting Uk coal. The environmental issue was looming too - both from the immediate health affects to long-term climate change, it’s clear that coal had to go. Perhaps a more humane way to deal with the issue was a more gradual shutdown of the industry, and providing alternative sources of employment. But has anyone ever really solved that thorny question of replacing obselete industries?

For all the hand-wringing about the miners strike etc, when the first new coal mine was announced for the Uk (2022), the Labour Party and “progressive” people of all stripes were horrified by the impact on the climate etc.

https://amp.theguardian.com/environment/2022/dec/07/uk-first-new-coalmine-for-30-years-gets-go-ahead-in-cumbria

hoodie6029

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121722767#Comment_121722767

She and her government used the money from council house purchases to fund tax cuts for the wealthy. The money wasn’t reinvested in more housing or social programs.

North Sea oil money was squandered in the same way. In Norway, a sovereign wealth fund was created to manage their oil money for the future generations. Norway was as poor as Ireland until the 60’s and look at it now.

She was no hero. The state purposely stockpiled coal for years after the previous strike when Ted Heath had to relent to the miners of face bankrupting the Country.

They knew Scargill would never give in either. It was always going to be a brutal battle.

Hamsterchops

Three shredded wheat Vs The Thatch

You'd have to be of a certain age to get that

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121713355#Comment_121713355

fighting a political battle was the only way he could fight for the workers.

he was up against a woman who would have gone to no lengths to put down the workers.

cheese sandwich

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121791076#Comment_121791076

He alienated many of his members by his undemocratic behaviours, allowing Thatcher to divide and rule. She was blessed with having Scargill as her opponent because it split the miners and allowed her to portray the strike as a battle for the rule of law rather than working class communities trying to protect their jobs and way of life.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121712768#Comment_121712768

Keeping coal mines open today would also be an outrage when imported coal would be cheaper and less pollutant to the Uk countryside.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121791331#Comment_121791331

Bit of a u unusual response, 40 years later is there any movement to reopen coal mines in tbe UK?

donaghs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121791580#Comment_121791580

Read the thread :)

when the conservatives announced a new coal mine, all those Labour people mourning the pit closures then were outraged about the impact on climate change.

https://amp.theguardian.com/environment/2022/dec/07/uk-first-new-coalmine-for-30-years-gets-go-ahead-in-cumbria

z80CPU

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121791276#Comment_121791276

scargill is a [b]JUDAS GOAT[\b] personality. Google Judas Goat for explanation or wicktionary. An apt Tory tool.

LuckyLloyd

Scargill made key strategic errors. He should have called for a national ballot, which he likely would have won, and broken the divisions within the minors that existed on a county by county level. He also persisted beyond a rational point, in effect turning a bad loss into an existential movement scuttling defeat.

However, it really isn't a simple issue. Scargill was correct in terms of the big picture and the direction of travel: for him it was an existential issue and history has proven him 100% correct on that point. A National Strike that could bring the National Coal Board / Government to the table so that a deal could be cut around ring fencing pit closures was the only way to slow the loss of jobs. Sure it seems silly and counter intuitive in retrospect, but the writing was on the wall already and drastic action was needed. Entire communities and lives were due to be destroyed, and it was only a matter of *when*. In that sense, once Scargill had the lads out he deduced that they could never go back in without a deal. You can say his mistakes hastened the demise of the miners and their unions, but that demise was coming anyway. Pit volume and mining employment was ever decreasing so they really didn't have anything to lose.

In any case, as the documentary summarises, no matter what approach Scargill chose the reality is that he and his union would have been portrayed incorrectly in media. This was the era of McKenzie at the Sun and class based editorial decisions within the BBC and ITV current affairs rooms (it was also an era influenced by the ongoing conflict in the North and the continuing censorship directed by Government). Media coverage was doctored, one eyed and deeply biased with facts changed and footage sequenced as necessary to support an anti Union narrative. It is therefore hugely naïve to think that Scargill had a path to victory, even if it is correct to point at strategic errors that made the life of Government / Media easier.

It is important to underline that the bias in media is historical fact. South Yorkshire police fabricated statements and evidence and media spliced footage in a way that supported an unlawful narrative discordant from reality. A similar effort was employed after the Hillsborough disaster. In this light, what people who lived through the time experienced is deeply distorted. Those working away in London and reading their paper / listening to the BBC - no matter how open minded - were being fed pure Government propaganda. Mining could not have survived, but a serious national conversation around how to ramp it down fairly, with retraining opportunities and replacement of jobs never happened. Instead the Conservative apparatus went to war on the miners, correctly deducing that it was to their political benefit to do so.

The big thing that came through the individual stories covered by the documentary is the crippling loss of identity experienced on both an individual and community level. Generations of working men "down pit" left with no job, no future, no hope. Their identity could not have survived of course, mining was always going to become obsolete. But it didn't have to become a class war by proxy, where "victory" for the Conservative Government meant abject poverty and desolation for mining communities.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121791276#Comment_121791276

his methods were democratic, the strike was going to be supported by a majority so it was pointless wasting his time having a vote on the issue seeing as it was going to be passed.

magdolf nazcher was always going to be able to divide and rule as she had the majority far right elements of the british media on her side and the BBC would do what it was told or else.

your claim is wishful thinking but not reality, magdolf was always going to do whatever she needed to do to win, kill if needs be.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121791331#Comment_121791331

the imported coal was actually often low grade, not to mention used slave labour to dig it out of the ground.

low grade coal is generally more polluting then some of the british stuff that came out of the ground which was often high grade, of course some of it was low as well but quite a lot of it was quite decent.

welsh coal as an example is said to be among the best in the world if not the best.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121791784#Comment_121791784

to be fair, the conservatives were only interested in opening a coal mine cause labour something something.

so it's not surprising people got annoyed over it seeing as it wasn't a genuine interest in providing jobs or energy security or any of the other reasons they claimed to want to open it.

ejmaztec

I remember them looking for the NUM's money and tracing a stash to a Bank of Ireland account in Dublin. I don't know if Thatcher's crowd managed to get their hands on it.

The only union that Thatcher ever supported was Solidarity in Poland, but people in the UK standing up for rights was a definite no no.

cheese sandwich

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121792819#Comment_121792819

That’s an, er, interesting concept of democracy you’ve got there

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121791784#Comment_121791784

posters tagging parts of the culture wars on to a discussion about the miner's strike.

LuckyLloyd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121792819#Comment_121792819

Well I think you're completely wrong there - he should definitely have held a national ballot. It would have been a legitimate method to supersede county level votes against striking in the few places that had yet to suffer significant closures. While the Government and media would have found other ways to delegitimise, the failure to have a national ballot fashioned a big stick against himself and the Union. You can empathise with the miners and see logic in Scargill's decision to all out strike while criticising that strategic error.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121792938#Comment_121792938

quite strange she supported solidarity in poland when she was backing the government there also.

obviously some falling out with the polish government or something.

donaghs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121794402#Comment_121794402

Getting off-topic, but I don't think Thatcher was ever a supporter of the Communist government in Poland? Wojciech Jaruzelsk etc.

We're talking about an Eastern Europe pre-Berlin Wall coming down.

There was hypocrisy in supporting unions in 1980s Poland, and fighting them in 80s Britain. But the people of Poland are certainly glad to free from the Soviet empire.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121814831#Comment_121814831

more a backer then a supporter, as in she was happy to use them when it suited her.

oh yeah it's great the soviet union is no more, it was a brutal regime that is no loss to anyone TBH.

Jack Daw

..

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121791076#Comment_121791076

Who do you blame for the hundreds of mine closures and job losses before Thatcher came to power?

Is this the same woman who put the police in to protect the workers who wanted to work? Who was it suppressed the voice of miners by refusing to hold actual ballots?

hotmail.com

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121792069#Comment_121792069

No young man would work in a coal mine in Britain or in Ireland for that matter these days.

If there was coal mines around now in the UK, they'd have to rely on Eastern Europeans to do the job.

Not everyone affected by the closures ended up on the dole for the rest of their life. Many went on and got new jobs and lived normally. Those who sunk into their own self pity, descended into poverty and still complain about Thatcher, while the rest of the world has moved on.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121830042#Comment_121830042

nobody because what closed before she came to power were small pits that could not be modernised, she on the other hand closed profitable pits that were ripe for modernisation and imported coal at multiples of the cost which was dug out of the ground using brutalised slave labour.

she put the police in to break up the strike and beat up workers, this has been admitted to even indirectly by her.

there was no point in having a ballot because the strike had enough support to justify it and carry it.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121830556#Comment_121830556

a lot more ended up on the doal then didn't and they ended up being demonised still by the racist tabloids.

those that didn't ended up in minimum wage jobs and still faced the same classism and demonisation.

hard for effected communities to move on when they are starved of everything due to classism.

thamus doku

The miners were there own worst enemy. The whole of the 70s they were on strike every five minutes and the owners of the mines were also in on it as the government had no choice but to bail the mine out

also remember the miners were very prone to violence too and I believe scargill made huge mistakes in how he managed the union.

thatcher had no choice but to bite the head off the snake

hotmail.com

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121830977#Comment_121830977

The tabloids were racist towards the strikers?

Classism ruined their lives. This is something 19th century argument.

Quitelife

The towns that lost their mines in many cases were promised replacement industries but thatcher and the tories never carried out these promises . The miners areas were working class and Labour so not important to Thatcher . These towns 40 years later have high unemployment, lots of poor people people , lower life expectancy and crime thanks to thatcher & London tories and the policemen who attacked the striking miners .