Client not paying-options?

KevMayo88

Hi all- I have a problem someone might be able to help with. So about a year and a half ago, a woman contacted me to do her some design work (graphic design) for her business. We agreed the scale and scope of the job and the price. I completed the work, and she was happy with this too and asked me to forward my invoice.

I forwarded my invoice in November 2022, and I still have not been paid. I emailed her serveral times reminding her of this- her initial replies were along the lines of "I'll pay you soon", but later she just stopped replying to me. I know she will not pay me by now.

The thing is, the amount owed to me is relatively small (€200). I would like to go about the legal route to get her to pay, but I am afraid that if it came to involving solicitors, etc. it would undoubtedly cost me far more to me in the long run than I am owed.

Is it best to just lie to the loss of this and move on? I know €200 might not be a huge amount in the grand scheme of things, but I worked hard for it and I don't make very much money in general, so to me, €200 was alot.

Maestro23

The financial planner that's on TV, Eoin McGee, was looking for people who had been scammed or not been paid for his new show coming out. I can't remember what it was called but may be no harm having a look into it, or at least the services he was offering? I'm not familiar with the ins & outs of Graphic Design but if she is using a logo you designed and hasn't paid for it, wouldn't it technically still be yours? Might be no harm to get a solicitor friend to send some kind of a letter! Life is hard enough, don't need clients like that! Hope it works out

callaway92

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121700654#Comment_121700654

For logo's - Yes; unless a contract explicitly notes that all created art/work that is worked on in project hours now belongs to the Business, then the creator is the owner. People have been stung by things like Fiverr many times in the past for these reasons when a business became successful and had a Graphic Designer coming back to them with demand letters.

OP, is the business Sole Trader or LTD? Is it definitely a legit business (ie Registered on core.cro.ie)?

Is there a clear paper trail of the agreement for the project put in place, even if not a contract? Is she still definitely in Business and using your work leading to her making revenue from it? Can you leave reviews for her Business anywhere or hound her Social Media?

For what it's worth after this amount of time, I'd move on over €200.

Ronney

Small claims court?

https://www.courts.ie/small-claims-procedure

28064212

I'd probably go down the route of issuing a "formal" final notice - if not paid by blah blah, legal proceedings can be issued blah blah blah. Done up on proper headed paper and sent by registered mail. Basically a scare tactic, because you're probably right, the cost of a solicitor isn't going to be worth it.

28064212

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121700748#Comment_121700748

Doesn't cover this case. Only B2B claims covered are: for goods or services bought for business use from someone selling them in the course of a business (business claims).

Gloomtastic!

I’ve been a sole trader for 24 years. Zero bad debt throughout that time.

If you want your money quickly. Go and visit this person at their work premises and/or their home. Refuse to leave until you get your money in full (in cash). Insult every person who you meet whether they are customers or family. They’ll pay you soon enough to get rid of you.

If you haven’t got their business or home address then you deserve to be robbed.

Good luck to you!

mickdw

Im owed over 3k from a client and I'm considering if its worth chasing considering costs involved.

200 is not worth chasing in any way shape or form.

KevMayo88

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121701036#Comment_121701036

That's what I thought, sadly. I guess my client basically knew this from the get-go. It's astonishing people can blatantly just not pay for work (even if the amount is small) and there are no reprocussions.

And to refer to some other points raised- I sent this woman a 'final notice' before Christmas-ignored. And while I do have her address, I do not wish to visit her in person- I'm not confrontational like that, and I would be concerned she could use me turning up at her door as some kind of further excuse not to pay.

Ronney

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121700847#Comment_121700847

No expert and don't no all the details but would this not be classed as a service bought for Business use from someone selling them in course of a business?

28064212

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121701090#Comment_121701090

No: https://www.courts.ie/rules/small-claims-procedure-si-no-17-2014

"business small claim" means a civil proceeding instituted under this Order by a business purchaser against a business vendor in relation to a contract in respect of any goods or service purchased, but excluding any claim—

(a) arising from an agreement to which the Consumer Credit Act 1995 applies or to which the Consumer Credit Regulations apply, or

(b) arising from an alleged breach of a leasing agreement, or

(c) for debt or liquidated damages,

To take a claim to the small claims court as a business, you must be the purchaser. The OP isn't

deirdremf

If you are fully documented, would it be legal if you put the story on the Internet, naming names?

Gloomtastic!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121701061#Comment_121701061

Believe me she’ll want you out of the way and will pay you.

If you don’t want to do it, get a friend to do it for you and give them the money. Otherwise this person is never going to pay you.

Ronney

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121701180#Comment_121701180

Ok Thanks

Boardnashea

If you have the time, call over and ask for payment. No need to go insulting people or getting angry. All the letters in the world (and emails) and easy to ignore. If not sucessful you can get a little louder but initially try and be nice about it.

...Ghost...

Does she have a business premises? Can you leave negative reviews, telling the truth of the type of person she is? People like her are scum and do this all the time to other business owners. The amounts are small, but they all add up. I've always made it difficult for business owners and customers to get away with robbing me. That's what it is...theft. Get the thief to pay up or it will happen again and again.

28064212

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121701246#Comment_121701246

If you stick strictly to the objective truth, then yes. Most people are bad at sticking to the objective truth.

• I invoiced this person in November 2022. I have not been paid despite four payment requests - Ok
• This person doesn't pay her debts and you shouldn't do business with them - Not ok

Even then, just sticking to the truth doesn't prevent you from being sued. What's more, if they take a defamation action against you, and you wish to use the truth defence, the burden of proof is on you. You have to be able to prove, in court, the veracity of your statements

Look OP if you haven’t the wherewithal to go and knock on their door and request the money what hope in hell have you of debt recovery through the courts.

Gusser09

Doorstep them. Also go on facebook etc and name and shame.

NewbridgeIR

Personal visit is most effective. It also helps if there is a family member of the debtor there as you can appeal to their better nature.

CrazyEric

If you don't like confrontation but don't want her to get away with it you could probably sell the debt to a collections agency for €1. They will hound her and add interest etc. At least you will have the satisfaction of not letting her away with it

brokenbad

Could always hire "The Viper" Foley to pay her a visit - she wouldn't be long paying up.....

spaceHopper

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121701061#Comment_121701061

She's no looking for excuses she's no intention of paying.

You have three options, walk away.

Use it a practice and get confrontational call to her and demand the money now, she'll huff and puff and treten to call the guards, you aren't doing anything wrong they won't do anything.

Or if it's a logo send to say as she has failed to pay you she is to stop using you work, she has 3 say. Or you will take legal action. Then follow through with that. She won't want to get a new logo. If she contacts you say that the ship for paying you has sailed and if she wants to keep using the logo you'll send her a new contract 1000 euros + 200 annual license fee.

JVince

Simpler solution.

Write to her -

If it is not paid within 7 days it will be transferred to a collection agency who will issue proceedings and look for summary judgement without further correspondence with you.

This will increase the debt to over €350 + court costs and summary judgement will be given within 14 days.

This then becomes a judgement of record and if still unpaid, the collection agency will request the court sheriff to collect. This will add a further €200+vat to the debt and risk the sheriff seizing goods.

As the collection agency also provides credit referencing for hundreds of companies, it can immediately affect your credit record.

At the end of the day, I will get my €200, the collection agency will get their €150, the court will get their costs and the sheriff will add their own fees. Your €200 debt to me will probably exceed €1,000 by then and your ability to get any form of credit or finance will be near impossible.

The alternative to to pay the invoice within the next 7 days.

My bank details are xxxxxxxxx

Only you will know whether you are bluffing or not

Glittering_Fault_720

Debt collectors cannot issue legal proceedings. They can only recommend that the creditor issues.

Also you cannot get summary judgement in 14 days.

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121701061#Comment_121701061

That is the down side of working for your self - you have to handle the business side and that means making sure you get paid. Use proforma invoices or don’t deliver art work that is not peppered with a water mark. Small contracts are only worth doing if you have zero hassle from them, so if the customer is not willing to make an advance on the work, leave it to some other schmuck to deal with them.

esker72

I'd look at three options:

1. Write it off as a bad debt and don't spend any more time on it.
2. Phone regularly - every day if you can tolerate that. You should get through to somebody and even if you don't get to speak directly, calmly leave a message, explaining that you're chasing an overdue debt and could they call you back, but also say you'll call back later or tomorrow. And do call back. The nuisance value/shame of this might work and nobody wants their staff knowing they dont pay their bills. Forget emails - one click gets rid of them.
3. Call in person to the office and explain you are owed money. The person may say they are not there. If so, say you'll call back in a few days and could they leave payment out for you. Make it clear that you'll be happy to wait that day until you get paid. I wouldn't hang around the second day though, at that point it's write off time and you're only wasting your own time.

I definitely wouldn't do the name and shame on social media. You'll look just as bad for doing that and it might cost you work from other clients. They won't know the full story and probably won't care. They'll just think if they get into a dispute with you you're likely to name them on social media.

Mellor

Unfortunately not worth it for €200. I assume it was not very much work for a fee that low. You've probably spend more time chasing than it took you.

In the future, I'd consider using a platform such as airtasker, or similar, for other odd jobs.

whomitconcerns

What do you mean it might give her a further excuse not to pay. She's not paying anyway!! Do it do it do it!

JVince

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121769093#Comment_121769093

I know that, you know that, but does she know that?

Some debt collectors will have an in-house solicitor or will have a contract with a local firm.

LCMS are a good example