Building Control Certification: SE vs BS

redsheeps

New one-off build for our primary residence.

Had a building surveyor lined up to do the certifications at stages. Had an unrelated side conversation with a structural engineer who just asked if we'd selected someone to certify the house and when I said we had a BS, the engineer said that a BS can't certify the structural elements of the roof, steel, lintels, etc and said to double check the agreement with the BS to confirm he plans to certify everything. I linked with our BS and he confirmed he is able to certify everything, except the septic tank system and that the engineer who designed this would have to sign-off on this.

Have seen a few posts here going back and forth over who is 'best' to do the certification. My query isn't so much who is 'best' but whether a BS can certify all parts of the regulations?

Gumbo

Which of the 2 have the best grasp of the building regulations and BCAR?

Generally, SE’s don’t do BCAR in my experience, they focus on ancillary certification to the Assigned Certifier. But it greatly depends on the person involved.

redsheeps

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121698127#Comment_121698127

Forgive the likely silly question, but how would I assess this other than asking them their knowledge? I have no particular knowledge to gauge their knowledge against.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121701738#Comment_121701738

That’s a tough question I suppose. Ask them what other jobs they done in the area where they acted as lead Certifier or Assigned Certifier.

Ask them will their certs cover all of the requirements of the building regulations, Part A to M.

C. Eastwood

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121701787#Comment_121701787

I have never heard of a lead Certifier.

In accordance with the Building Control Act 2007, there are only 2 types of Statutory Registered Certifiers;-

1.     State Registered Design Certifier

2.     State Registered Assigned Certifier

The 4 Professionals who may qualify and may be registered for one or both of these Title are as follows:-

1.     Chartered Building Surveyor (Protected Title) (Society of Chartered Surveyors Ireland and Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors)

2.     Registered Building Surveyor (Protected Title) (Society of Chartered Surveyors Ireland and Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors)

3.     Chartered Civil Engineer (Engineers Ireland)

4.     Registered Architect (Protected Title) (Royal Institution of the Architects of Ireland)

Any one of these above-mentioned 4 Professionals who are State Registered Design Certifiers - are authorized to design any buildings - in the Republic of Ireland.

Any one of these above-mentioned Professionals who are a State Registered Assigned Certifiers - are authorized to certify the construction of any building - from commencement on site to completion of the building - in the Republic of Ireland.

If a Registered Building Surveyor or Chartered Building Surveyor confirms that they will provide a Certificate of Compliance with the Building Regulations and/ or Planning Permission, they are qualified to do same.

An Opinion on a Certificate of Compliance covers all of parts of the Building Regulations, unless otherwise stated.

A Certificate of Compliance issued by Building Control Management System (BCMS) Certifies Compliance of all parts of the Building Regulations - no exclusions whatsoever.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121712115#Comment_121712115

Not all projects go through BCAR. It could be a small extension where someone is acting as lead Certifier for the works. There are Architectural Technologists that have the relevant experience and PI to sign off on some jobs.

C. Eastwood

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121712151#Comment_121712151

I was referring to this reply by you:-

That’s a tough question I suppose. Ask them what other jobs they done in the area where they acted as

lead Certifier or Assigned Certifier.

Ask them will their certs cover all of the requirements of the building regulations, Part A to M.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

My reply of today was in relation to your mentioning of and Assigned Certifier (see Above)

My Reply of today above DID refer to an Opinion on a Certificate of Compliance which is outside of the BCMS

Heretofore, there was no mention of any Architectural Technologist

The only 2 professions mentioned heretofore was a Building Surveyor and a Structural Engineer.

An Architectural Technologist(who is not also one of the 4 Professions mentioned in mine above) cannot be

registered as State Registered Assigned Certifier.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121712504#Comment_121712504

Irrelevant posting and bolder text that means nothing unfortunately.

The OP is asking who would be best. An SE or a BS. It depends on relevant experience. I know fantastic engineers that don’t do any building regulation or planning work. I know fantastic BS’s that are top notch on particular areas of building fabric but won’t touch building regulation compliance.

So answer still stands. It depends on relevant experience.

BCAR is a different question.

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121712115#Comment_121712115

Is being a Chartered Building Surveyor is sufficient, that's the wording used in the statute is registered/on the register. If Charter Surveyors are automatically on the Institutes register, then it's not a separate category. And the 3rd is not limited to Civil engineers. It's any Chartered Engineer. Those are the 3 professions.

Worth mentioning the reason why it’s only those three is partially political. One body in particular decided to prioritise one set of members over another.

But being afforded the opportunity to be a certifier is not the same having the knowledge/ability. There are many Engineer’s who work only on domestic scale, and competently do it all. But the actually top structural engineers would have no clue of any regs outside of part A (nor do they need to). Similar applies to the other two professions.

Any one of these above-mentioned 4 Professionals who are State Registered Design Certifiers - are authorized to design any buildings - in the Republic of Ireland.

Hmmm, slight correction. Any of those three can certify the design of any building. They absolutely cannot design any building single handed. Not in the real world were ability and liability matters. Ancillary certs exist for a reason. An Architect, or a Surveyor is not going to be undertaking the structural design for a complex building. Similarly, the other two are not going to be undertaking architectural design and so on. I think that's the BS and SE are referring to in the OP.

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058333952/building-control-certification-se-vs-bs

Sounds like the SE is expecting that the BS will need an ancillary cert for the structural elements. But the BS is only expecting to need one for the septic tank system. I would assume that the BS is more familiar with what the specific house design involves. But even if there was a bespoke structural element that needed to be certified. The BS would just have the designer certify, as per the septic tank system. The BS is still the Design/Assigned Certifier in that case.

redsheeps

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121723794#Comment_121723794

Cheers for clarifying. The house has some structural steel but the architect (RIAI) and now builder who will be doing the job, and the BS, all mentioned it's very bog standard stuff (standard enough house, no bespoke / fancy structural elements). We have written design sign-off from RIAI architect, inclusive of structural steel elements.

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121724511#Comment_121724511

If the arch cert covers the steel, and the BS is happy to certify on that basis then it is cover. It's really between them and their PI what they can sign.