Adult that never tells the truth

HypoC

Hi ,i'm wondering does anybody have any experience with dealing with somebody who is a pathological liar?I mean a liar who literally lies about everything, from very minor things that nobody cares about to very big things including jobs/college etc. My only sister is quite a lot younger than me and the baby of the family, she has a very beautiful son who is 3 and whom we all adore, we have no other siblings. From the time she was a young teenager she was always evasive and quite dishonest, in her early adulthood she lied more seriously about college (told us she was attending and was in 4th yr of degree but had dropped out in first year) she then had a series of jobs and eventually a job that she loved - she got fired from that for a very serious breach of trust ( I won't go into details on that one but she was lucky she didn't end up in serious trouble). Her life imploded after that as she had to tell me as she needed my help so she admitted to a number of serious lies around this time and sought help as she recognised she had a problem. She is in her late 20's now and still lies about everything, genuinely questions from me like 'hey what did ya do last night?' are immediately replied to with complete fabrication. The problem is that no matter what you say to her, no matter what proof you present to her and i mean you could have 100% proof of a lie - she will keep looking at you dead in the eyes and insist that you are wrong and she is not lying - she will die on that hill and will never ever admit to lying. Question is this - were you able to maintain a relationship with the liar and ignore the lies etc - I want to have a relationship with her, I love her very much I am very protective of her and her son for various reasons but I just find it hard to be in a room with her now

Wanderer78

this is a very tricky one, your sister clearly needs a lot of serious professional help, but shes the one that has to recognise this, and then really engage in that help. you can of course support her during this help, but if she simply wont, theres very little you can do, sadly....

HypoC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121665044#Comment_121665044

Yeah she definitely needs serious help - she engaged in some therapy or a while however I deeply suspect she didn't tell the truth during her sessions as some of the 'advice' given to her by the therapist was just insane and made no sense at all. She still maintains that she is seeing a therapist but ironically I found out that she is lying about that - I haven't confronted her about that because....what is the point, she'll lie and say she is doing them on zoom or she changed therapist etc etc. I've accepted that she has major issues that will not be cured anytime soon - I just don't know how to swallow down my own disappointment and play along to keep the peace between us. It's actually breaking my heart

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121665091#Comment_121665091

it is upsetting for you and your family, but there truly is very little you can do until something changes in her, sadly she will have completely wrecked a lot in her life, by the time that happens, if it even happens at all, she will have destroyed most if not all her relationships. its hard not to take things personally in such situations, but theyre truly not, shes just not well at all, and requires that help, try spend some time with her child, without her if possible, sadly this will be doing damage to her child as well, and if it all eventually blows up, her child will need trustable folks, such as yourself, as your sister may in fact require in care help eventually....

HypoC

Thank you wanderer - she's very intelligent and I think part of the reason I'm so horrified by her is not so much the lying but her total lack of remorse - it truly doesn't bother her in the slightest - either the serious things that she had to admit to or now the every day lies - she's actually quite arrogant really. Unfortunately I think as the future unfolds she will pull away from us and bring her son with her - she changes her friend group regularly she never has friends for long and doesn't like any one friend or family member to be in the same room together - she knows she has told everybody different stories about different things and she never wants us all to talk. It's such a sad situation she could have so much in her life if she didn't do this.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121665211#Comment_121665211

yea this is a job for professionals now, theres a potential of a million and one disorders at play there now, you could goggle and youtube till your hearts content to try figure out what it maybe, but the reality is, you really cant help her, not directly anyway, it sounds like there could be a personality disorder at play there, but who knows, again, that would require professional assessments.....

this must be very distressing for you and your family, let alone very frustrating, but again, try not take it personally

Dial Hard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121666138#Comment_121666138

I'm sorry, but no. Keeping up a lie about being in college *for three entire years* is not normal 20s behaviour. Also, I'm the youngest of five and I never felt compelled to respond to familial comparisons with pathological behaviour. It sounds to me like the OP has enormous compassion towards their sister, but is understandably at the end of their tether with the constant duplicity. Most people would have given up on the sister years ago.

OP, I've had experience with a pathological liar in the past, and in my experience, they lie so habitually and constantly that they end up either believing their own lies, or view lies as so inconsequential as to be not worth batting an eyelid over, hence the "blank stare" response to being confronted.

As others have said, there's little to nothing you can do about this. My other learning from dealing with pathological liars is that they often assume everyone else lies as much as they do, and so they genuinely don't see the problem. Hence they rarely if ever accept that they need help.

I guess my only advice to you is to see if there's a way you can separate the liar in her from the rest of her personality and try and preserve the relationship that way. I'm not sure I'd be able to, though.

Rubberchikken

Your sister needs professional help but until and if she reaches that conclusion herself I don't see how anything can change.

Instead of trying to get her to admit the truth as you see it maybe it would be easier for you to accept that she is this way and just go with it.

Maintain a relationship with her.and your nephew and see how things pan out.

It has to be distressing for you but if you persist in trying to force her to admit the truth about whatever it's you are both discussing then it stands a good chance of driving her away completely.

Buddy Bubs

Yeah I was friends with 2 brothers who did this. Just lied about everything. Stupid stuff, no benefit to some of it. Some of it was serious though and spread lies about others.

Got to the point where we couldn't believe a word they said about anything, it was certainly a disorder. I just cut them out, some lads still see them the odd time and apparently nothing has changed they'd be in their 40s now.

Different with a sibling though I suppose you don't want to cut her out but you'll have to set girl boundaries around her lies and maybe get her into therapy for it.

HypoC

Thank you all for the responses. I adore my sister I really do and over the years i've tried to explain that these lies are causing such harm and distrust - I've also explained so often that no matter what the issue is -she can always tell me the truth - I'll always try to help her once I know the truth and I've shown her this. I have always helped her in the past and the reality is that I will continue to do so. One of my real worries and actually this is really quite stressful for me is that I know that she lies herself into a corner with things, serious things and then she gets very overwhelmed and very very stressed and actually then usually falls ill. That sounds mad but truly that's usually how I know something bad has been happening because she gets sick and stressed, she gets panic attacks - it's distressing really to see. Sometimes she'll tell me the truth, mostly she'll tell me about 20% truth and the rest is a lie or an exaggeration of some kind. She is a bad candidate really for being a pathological liar because she doesn't handle stress very well and she very often cannot keep all the balls juggling. I worry about her all the time, as much as she frustrates me, I don't see this ending well for her. In an ideal world I would be able to get her the help she needs but in Ireland I have found that very difficult - she saw a hse psychologist at my request who basically told her she was fine and just needed to get some exercise and tell the truth. If only it were that easy. Thank you guys for the responses - it helps to just vent

jj880

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058333030/adult-that-never-tells-the-truth

I know plenty of people like this although never to this extent. Thats mad.

My opinion is it gives them a thrill to constantly lie and think people believe them.

As in they've convinced themselves they're so skilled in their storytelling they can make anyone believe anything.

Only solution for me is spend no time in their company at all. Most of them seem to think it's great craic or if you call them out you're "no craic". Really bizarre stuff.

Luckily I have no family members that carry on like this. That's a tough one. When Ive fallen out with family on other matters its usually involves no contact for a while. If they repeat the behaviour then no contact for a longer period. If they wise up grand. If not also grand.

HypoC

Thanks JJ880 - yeah it's not only family but a family member who needs help a lot and always has done. A lot of my friends would tell me to show tough love etc - cut her off etc etc but I just can't do that, it's not a simple matter of cutting her off and leaving her to fend for herself, imo she is ill, she has some form of mental illness which I just don't know how we can get diagnosed. There are other complications that I won't go into - other factors in her life that imo cause her to exaggerate and lie and also cause her a lot of stress.

I just have to try to accept that she is ill and accept that a lot of what she says is a lie and try to live with that until such time as we can get her help

Wanderer78

its messy stuff hypo, you re a great sibling, you re clearly very concerned for her well being, and rightfully so, as this is very concerning behavior, she clearly also has serious anxiety issues, all of which again can only be resolved by professional help, but thats really up to her, it would be easy to say a family intervention is required, but thats also not easy to do, and in itself can become very messy, it can cause very serious family divisions etc

sadly i suspect this will eventually end up with an emergency intervention, she maybe forced into care, but that could be many years away, who knows, she will isolate herself though before that

HypoC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121670043#Comment_121670043

Thanks Wanderer78 - love is a terrible thing!. I do know that there'll be periods where we don't speak and fall out - but overall I know I can never take myself out of her life for any reason because i 100% know that she will need help and she'll need me to get her out of the various holes she has dug for herself.

MagicJohn

OP, you are dealing with someone who has Narcissistic personality disorder or to be probably more specific; Covert Narcissistic personality disorder.

They have a completely outsized/unbalanced ego.

Insincerity is almost a currency these days.

This may seem harsh; But the only cure it staying away from them.

----------------------------------------

Warned: No online diagnosis please

HypoC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121670494#Comment_121670494

I think she has traits of many different things and there is not just one diagnosis for her, yes i've seen some narcissistic type behaviour. i'll probably never get to the bottom of what drives it - staying away is not an option so I just have to live with it as best I can.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121670494#Comment_121670494

...there more than likely is some sort of personality disorder going here, but the reality is, none of us know this for sure, that would have to be appropriately assessed, such behaviors are probably alignment with a million and one disorders, i wouldnt be even surprised if some with my own, asd, would have similar issues....

LimeFruitGum

As long as you (or someone else) keep cleaning up after her, she has no incentive to change her behaviour because for the most part, she nearly always gets away with lying.

The worst that'll happen is that someone stops talking to her or she gets fired? No big deal really - she has dealt with that several times now and moves on smoothly enough. She can always talk her way into another job. I wouldn't see the point in challenging her over XYZ as it sounds like she'll lie when she is put on the spot.

However, I'd agree with the other posters that fixing this is far beyond your paygrade. She needs treatment from the sound of it, but it may take her some time to genuinely accept it. It may take a while before she is ready, so perhaps adjust your expectations on that one. All you can do is protect yourself and keep keeping your distance, as hard as that will be.

mariaalice

She is not going to change thats the start of maintaining a relationship with her and through her maintaining a relationship with her child.

Limit the amount of time you spend with her, 30 minutes a few times a week leave after 30 minutes keep the conversation light and pleasant, what's on TV, swooping recipes that sort of thing and try and think of something positive about her.

By doing that you will retain a relationship with her and her child.

As everyone says she has to want to change herself.

It's like gambling, alcoholism, or similar no amount of asking pleading arranging help works unless the person realises they have a problem and they want to change.

By persisting in pushing her, talking to her, and offering her help, pleading with her you will ruin the relationship you have with her.

mariaalice

Unless she has a personality disorder or a diagnosable mental illness she probably hates herself extremely low self-esteem could be at the route of it.

Big Bag of Chips

She will need help and she'll need me to get her out of the various holes she has dug for herself.

By stepping in to save her and protect her from herself you are prolonging this. You are not allowing her to face the full consequences of her lying. Why does she need you to get her out of the various holes she has dug for herself? What will happen if you don't step in?

If you stop cleaning up her messes and you stop digging her out of holes she just might have to come to the realisation that she has to sort herself out. For now she doesn't have to think about that. You are doing it for her. You are protecting her from the inevitable fall out. In essence, you are encouraging her to continue as she is. You are enabling her and supporting her in her lies. Yes, you are doing it out of love. But it doesn't change the fact that your actions are allowing her to carry on.

Choice is yours. But I don't think you're "helping" in the way you think you are helping.

csirl

I once worked in an organisation where there was an individual who lied about just about everything, even inconsequential stuff. Caused enormous problems in the otganisation. I always got the impression the person knew they were lying, but it was part of their DNA - they couldnt help themselves. Eventually the lies caught up with them and they left just before they were likely going to be dismissed. While on many occasions, they lied to make themselves look better or to cover uo for poor performance - so they benefitted fron their lies - on many occasions the lies were inconsequential. Id agree that theres some sort of personality dusorder behimd it, but there seems to be no cure - these people just continue on acting the same way in the next job.

gormdubhgorm

I feel sorry for the OP.

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I only met one person in my life as a youngster about 20's who fitted the OP's description fortunately it was not a family member -friend of a friend.

They lived in a kind of fantasy world, talked themselves up at every chance they could get. Really untrustworthy, and very self obsessed/absorbed. But would not have been very educated. Yet would pretend he was knowledgeable on everything.

Also, constantly seemed to be wheeling and dealing. Would start a job, be repeatedly late then make up an excuse that his child was suffering from colic. But he did not even have a child! Stuff like that all the time. Needless to say they did not last in the job. A drifter/fantasist type of person. Would be looking for loans of money etc.

You could not describe this person as someone who would help others, the opposite they would use people at every chance they get. I looked up the person decades later on Linkedin the person now work in some form of sales, my immediate thought was what a facade. Had a suit on in his profile picture and everything. All image and front.

I naively previously thought only such people existed in films etc. But such people are out there.

The OP is put in a much more awkward position as they cannot walk away - it is family. As others have suggested therapy is the way to go, but I think that could be easier said than done, as the OP's sister could refuse to do so/not go. Hopefully the OP can manage to get his sister to do so. It is not as if the OP's sister can be sectioned as from the OP the sister does not seem to be a danger to themselves just a constant hassle. It is a real awkward one, good luck OP.

HypoC

Thank you all for your advices - i have been thinking about it all quite a bit. Where we are now is somewhat distant - i have told her that we can't have a deep relationship while she lies to me so I have to keep everything superficial with her just very light banter - no chats about what's going on her in life etc - for now it's working. She's not lying to me because I'm not asking her anything or discussing anything with her - quite literally just having conversations about stuff on the telly etc. We'll see what the next few months brings . Thanks all

Senature

I would definitely give up on confronting her and trying to catch her out. You know she lies a lot. You can't change that. Frustrating and upsetting as it is, there is nothing to be gained by constantly discussing the lying with her. As you said yourself, keep your interactions light, take everything she says with a pinch of salt and focus on your own life and well being. At the end of the day she is responsible for herself, her actions and their outcomes.

NiceFella

To protect yourself OP, I would really try to stop yourself from feeling frustrated as much as you possibly can. Change in such circumstances is probably very limited even with professional help. Make no mistake, lying on this level is a severe mental health problem and confrontation on it is probably trying to confront a serious alcoholic on their drinking.

As others have said, remove yourself for your own sanity and let her make her mistakes and fend for herself. People who are compulsive liars probably ended up that way because they weren't met with repercussions for doing so in early life.