Super Shoes

average_runner · 24-01-2024 9:56am #1

Be interesting to here people thoughts on this.

Over the last few months, was listening to many podcasts about super shoes, with physio's, coaches etc. They are all saying super shoes are loses their effect the slower you are, which makes sense given your running stride etc.

So the question I would ask, where do we think is the cut off for getting benefit out of super shoes?

Sub 18 5k, sub 20 5k, sub 22 5k, sub 25 5k or other distances etc

Trampas · 24-01-2024 10:43am

Depends on the super shoe. Now you’ve got them for 5/10km and others for half and longer.

How do you measure the cut off? If it’s 10 seconds over 5km is that a benefit no matter on your time or are they talking about %

marathon2022 · 24-01-2024 12:00pm

I've had a few but I would only really have run hard in the Nike vaporfly and alphafly, the vaporfly are a wonderful shoe, my favourite ride of all running shoes, for me they are perfect for 6.30 /m . The alphafly are just weird to wear but during a marathon at 7.30/ m they are perfect. In the past I've used Saucony pro for training runs during 5 k and marathon specific plans and apart from the upper falling apart they were great. Like most advise online advise or even (especially) here you should take what you hear with a pinch of salt, running bloggers, podcasters and even coaches are just normal people giving opinions based on their own limited knowledge ,some are very well versed, some are mental cases.

I would think the value of the super shoe is closely related to the effort and seriousness of the individuals running. For someone out running a couple times a week, doing the odd parkrun and not engaging in any sort of planned approach i doubt there is value but if you are planning your training, have a target and are commited to running appropriately and regularly you will most likely get value in a race at whatever speed your running at.

I **** love the vaporfly shoe, makes me smile to run in them

average_runner · 24-01-2024 1:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121664117#Comment_121664117

So i am a big Saucony fan and puma. Vaporfly, my ankles roll so much in them, just no support on the ankle sides.

marathon2022 · 24-01-2024 1:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121664538#Comment_121664538

If I get back to a reasonable shape I fully intent to give the Saucony elite a go for racing and the pumas for daily training. Hearing great things. Currently I'm plodding along in a pair of dependable triumphs doing easy milage. Late spring I hope take the vaporfly out for a speedy parkrun to see where in at.

Murph_D · 24-01-2024 7:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058332985/super-shoes

Well, there's a bit of research in this area that suggests recreational runners get benefits from super shoes at well slower than 4 hour marathon pace: see for example

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37734742/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/wellness/2023/02/08/nike-vaporfly-super-shoe-running/

One of the factors is, are you putting enough force into the plate/foam to get the benefits? So I'd imagine if there are benefits for anyone at MP (assuming MP is your actual honest marathon effort) you'd benefit at all faster paces too, as you're putting more force into the shoe the faster you run.

Don't know how useful it is to try to extrapolate 5k, 10k 'cutoff' times for benefits, it probably varies a lot between individuals (gait, turnover, weight, ground contact time etc etc). More research needed, probably!

robinph · 02-02-2024 2:59am

To feel a rebound from my shoes I'd have to be going sub 18m 5km pace which is just a touch beyond me these days. But I still think I get a benefit from them at marathon pace as I'm able to walk up and down stairs the day after without looking too odd. I can't feel the difference during the run at that pace though.

Anything more scientific than that I cannot provide.

average_runner · 04-02-2024 9:11pm

Is there any non carbon racing shoes these days?

Loved the brooks st racer and hyperion

Trampas · 06-02-2024 8:25am

Always try a pvc one

hoka Carbon x on sale for £100 on sportsshoes for a cheap pair of carbon

Duanington · 06-02-2024 9:40am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121721732#Comment_121721732

The Brooks Hyperion is still on the go, picked up a pair recently and I'm also a fan.

The Adidas Takumi Sen have some sort of nylon rods in there but no carbon, they feel a lot more like a traditional racer to me.

I ran a 5k recently in a pair of Sauconi Fastwitch, super close to the ground, still a little rebound from them, very traditional racer ( mind you, I didn't race too well !)

FlipperThePriest · 06-02-2024 10:54am

I bought my first super shoes, a pair of Vaporflys back during the Black Friday sales and had been meaning to test them out, I didn't until yesterday. I did a little bit of an experiment just to try and gauge if there's any noticeable difference for me. Up until now, my road race shoes had been Saucony Endorphin Speeds. So last week I did a 20 minute threshold run around the track in the Sauconys, intended pace 4min/km. Yesterday, 5 days later, I did the exact same run on the track at 4min/km in the Vaporflys. There was a 30kmph wind yesterday, so I thought that would skew things.

Endorphin Speed run:

Vaporfly run:

From above, you can see in the Vaporflys the effort was 14 bpm (about 8-9%) less effort. Fairly unscientific comparison and possibly a lot of external factors at play such as rest, fuel etc but I had a fairly hard week this week, did a 23k mountain run on Sat, recovery run on Sun, followed by the Vaporfly run yesterday. It was noticeable to me how rhythmic I found them, my pace was metronomic compared to the previous run, despite the wind, which you can see in the average pace.