Miniature Chinese Flags, Elton John's Piano, and a Piano Man (Brendan Kavanaugh)

Overheal

This guy is news to me, wondering if anyone around here is more familiar with him or his apparent local infamy.

Over the weekend he was accosted by some Chinese/Chinese-British people where he was playing a piano donated to the St. Pancras railway station in London, by Elton John in 2016. They didn't like the fact that they were inadvertently recorded, and proceeded to assert rights they don't have in the UK, like the right to not be recorded in a public space where there is no expectation of privacy. They were even waving miniature Chinese flags and carrying flyers that asserted they weren't allowed to be recorded. Eventually Kavanaugh is seen touching/brushing up with one of the women's Chinese flags, and her body-man/friend absolutely lost his ****, "DONT TOUCH HER YOU ARENT THE SAME AGE" etc. and then the police get called, who tried to assert "you can't say [this isn't China]" as apparently when someone is waving China flags around it's racist or something to presume they're from China. Police eventually leave without much to stand on.

Here's a full video of the incident, the livestream recording, which has nearly racked up 5 Million views as of writing. The incident begins unfolding around 5:45 mins

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65iwnI2hjAA

Which has gone quite viral, definitely not what the CCP wanted in the first place, whoops. Streisand Effect on full display, TV interviews etc. as a result. Kavanaugh implies that MI5 is even involved:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BIm-vF-YeY

Apparently he's not well liked by security at the station, eg. from a month ago, they're quite power trippy about searching his backpack

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cW27j1tGERQ

What do you think? Troll? Sensation? Needs to take his sunglasses off? Does Scotland Yard answer the whims of the secret Chinese police stations now?

keeponhurling

Looks like no big deal.

They asked him to stop filming them. Most people would just stop filming. This guy seems like a bit of a d!ck.

He was entitled to continue filming, it's legal.....so no big deal.

Or am I missing something here?

retalivity

The chinese lad screaming off camera deserved a slap

davetherave

He is dead right in this case, but he can come across as a bit of a knob in some of the videos I've seen of him. Moving the piano and then when security came over to ask him to move it back he just played louder and said he couldn't hear them.

foxsake

the copper was the worst , even worse than the commies.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121670400#Comment_121670400

imagine if you went through your life doing the bidding of other - it would be pathetic

the filming is his gig for his youtube . they've no right to demand he does anything , disgusting shower.

Vic_08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121670941#Comment_121670941

While he is getting a nice wave of publicity and no doubt lots of extra clicks from this he is also running the risk of triggering a blanket ban on commercial use of these pianos as I would bet he has no agreement or contract with the station operators to be conducting his business on their property for free.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121673098#Comment_121673098

Which would only result in nobody using them, especially not guest celebrities, who would be accused of self promotion and monetization, some wikipedia mentions have been Alicia Keys, John Legend, Rod Stewart, Jeff Goldblum, etc. as coming in to use the piano (this one in particular, donated by Elton John)

No money is exchanged or transacted inside the station either, and his channel gets views from all of his aggregate content including simple video blogs and complex interactions with police, which they can't ban you making videos of police or the resulting ad revenue from that.

In general a commercial licensure is about ensuring goods and services exchanged for money are safe and legal. It's not as though he opens up a shop, or solicits cash donations, etc.

I think they'd have little argument with those semantics. It hardly qualifies as a commercial use, then must any instagrammer etc. be followed around the station if they choose to make a tiktok or livestream from their phones and hit up for a licensing deal? Seems very petty or as the lawyers might say, de minimis.

Had to look up Goldblum on the keys

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4omjQSVxJBY

Clearly driving a lot of foot traffic ie. commerce to the station and its shops.

Worth pointing out the Chinese congregation also admitted to being there to film their own project for their own benefit. "We're here in Europe for Chinese TV"

TheValeyard

Fcuk the CCP

The man had every right to film and play the piano.

They could have moved off somewhere else if they were concerned about their privacy (while out in a public space with cctv, smartphones everywhere) With their mini flags and Pro regime propaganda. Its the UK, not China. No one needs to listen to these regime stooges.

keeponhurling

Why do you think they are regime stooges, or that they even support the CCP ?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121674088#Comment_121674088

I thought that would be common sense that Chinese broadcasting is state owned and I would be 99.9% sure you would be screened before working in broadcasting in China.

They mentioned they are there for Chinese TV.

silliussoddius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121674088#Comment_121674088

They always announce their presence with small flags.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121674088#Comment_121674088

"We're here in Europe for Chinese TV"

no reason...

RobbieTheRobber

Everyone is assuming he has a right to film in a public place but a train station is not a public place under uk law.

Its privately owned by the railway company and is publicly accessible but he may actually require the train station to authorize his filming

The rest of this thread will of course involve lots of casual racism against Chinese people.

NIMAN

I've not watched any of the videos, but always thought folk who wear shades ALL THE TIME are knobs.

I see he has them on in all 3 of the videos.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121676972#Comment_121676972

Everyone is assuming he has a right to film in a public place but a train station is not a public place under uk law.

The police expressly disagree with you...

"You're in a public place," one of the officers could be heard telling them in the live stream. "If they're filming they have the right to do it in a public place."

https://www.businessinsider.com/brendan-kavanagh-chinese-youtuber-pianist-demand-live-stream-face-police-2024-1

BI also linked to you know, the law, that permits this. "UK law permits people to film in public and police do not have the power to stop them."

https://www.met.police.uk/advice/advice-and-information/ph/photography-advice?__cf_chl_tk=eC00NLP74PR5K.nheZDchDWF9pSmLx8TSyFv00U0Xsw-1705979138-0-gaNycGzNDrs

"Members of the public and the media do not need a permit to film or photograph in public places and police have no power to stop them filming or photographing incidents or police personnel."

You can see a perfect exchange with the policewoman in the main video about this. She was quite irritated the video was going on youtube but she had fcuk all authority to do anything about it.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121676993#Comment_121676993

Maybe he has chronic uveitis or a sensitivity to light, don't know.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121676972#Comment_121676972

Places the public generally have access to are considered public places, regardless of whether privately owned.

I have little doubt his video has been carefully edited. He was hogging the piano for 45 min while they were waiting for it, ostensibly to record their own video, and they didn't want recordings of that released prior. I see no particularly reason to believe either side over the other and they are all various levels of just twats.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121677106#Comment_121677106

"I have little doubt his video has been carefully edited"

Where is the edit? Timestamps?

They don't mention anything about wanting on or waiting on use of the piano. They mention liking his music etc. and being there for Chinese TV. Did you - even watch the video?

NIMAN

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121677058#Comment_121677058

Possibly. But I'm guessing just a knob.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121677153#Comment_121677153

He's also very knobbish but I don't think that obviates what happened here.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121677137#Comment_121677137

Edited perhaps the wrong word, but started at the most convenient time

Yes, I watched it (or some of it, I'm not watching 45 mins of it). I also read multiple stories on it where they bring up the other points. Maybe they are lying, I wouldn't go trusting any party to this.

And while asking not to be recorded in public may not be a legal right, I think it is also a fairly reasonable request, even if you are free to ignore it.

Gussoe

Pretty insane interaction. Can hardly believe they thought they could import their laws from China into the UK.

But in fairness, the piano guy was triggered a little by the earlier conversations. He could have dismissed them and just told them don't worry about it, the video won't go on YouTube. But I understand that he relished the insanity of the interaction and just how crazy the chinese people came across.

Great click-bait potential there and he took a big bite of it.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121677175#Comment_121677175

I don't think they were being reasonable. A simpler request would be 'Can you please blur out my face thanks'

The start of the video appears to be the start of the livestream so I don't know how it could have been started at a less convenient time.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121677201#Comment_121677201

He was livestreaming so it was already on youtube as it was happening.

Could still have made a reasonable request for him to take the live version down later and reupload with their faces blurred out.

Overheal

Winnie the Pooh at St. Pancras today to keep the CCP away

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCLGXk6hFLQ

RobbieTheRobber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121677022#Comment_121677022

I watched the video and that officer seemed unsure of herself. I don't think we can take her word as gospel on anything

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121678075#Comment_121678075

"I think playing a piano in public is a fundamental human right"

🤣🤣🤣🤣

I lost it at that part.

RobbieTheRobber

"Photography and film at stations

You can take photographs at stations provided you do not sell them on to a company or stock image agency. That is considered commercial photography.

If you are filming for quite a while or might be using bulky equipment you should let our station staff know so that the reasons for your filming are clear."

https://www.networkrail.co.uk/communities/railway-enthusiasts/guidelines-for-taking-photos-at-stations/

At a minimum it seems he should be seeking the train companies permission.

davetherave

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121678549#Comment_121678549

You may be of the opinion that Police Officer in question comes across as unsure, but thankfully the Association of Chief Police Officers of England, Wales and Northern Ireland, now the National Police Chiefs' Council,  has had some guidance on the matter for quite some time.

https://www.theiac.org.uk/resourcesnew/filming-in-public/ACPO_Guidance_PhotographsPublicPlaces.pdf

• There are no powers prohibiting the taking of photographs, film or digital images in a public place. Therefore members of the public and press should not be prevented from doing so.
• Once an image has been recorded, the police have no power to delete or confiscate it without a court order. 

RobbieTheRobber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121679231#Comment_121679231

It is not a public place. A railway company is a private company. The railway company owns the train station.

And while it may be publicly accessible is not necessarily a public place.

Much like a shopping centre.

Ninthlife

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121676972#Comment_121676972

Any jokes towards chinese people is wong

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121679369#Comment_121679369

The station permits filming.

https://stpancras.com/filming-photography-and-events

FILMING & PHOTOGRAPHY AT ST. PANCRAS INTERNATIONAL

St. Pancras International Station is a masterpiece of Victorian Gothic Architecture and one of the most elegant stations in the world. Features include the iconic Barlow Shed and roof, the Sir John Betjeman and Meeting Place statues, the famous Dent St. Pancras clock, the Eastern Arch leading to the hotel forecourt and a ground floor level full of high spec, retail spaces - a wealth of contrasting locations, all under one roof.

HS1 Ltd. and our station operator always try to support filming & photography at this station, especially those that look to showcase and celebrate the stunning architecture and character of the building. We are proud to see so many visitors enjoying the station and remembering and sharing those experiences through photography and films.

As the station’s commitment is to maintaining safe and reliable operations and offering a seamless visitor experience, we require that any professional photography or filming in our public areas are applied for via the processes below so that we can discuss your request with you.

LARGE-SCALE FILMING: 

Network Rail represents HS1 Ltd. for filming here for large-scale filming project types including:

• Commercials
• Feature films
• TV fiction
• Music videos

For these projects, please follow their process on https://filming.networkrail.co.uk/hs1/

SMALL-SCALE FILMING & PHOTOGRAPHY: 

For small-scale filming at our stations, please review the guidance in this presentation and follow the application steps.

EVENTS AND POP-UPS:

St. Pancras International regularly organises exciting events, performances and activations with our train operators, charity and brand partners in line with our year-round activity calendar.

The station has designated activation spaces throughout which we accept enquiries for and are reviewed on a case by case basis. These will be accepted or declined based on the nature, time frame and associated benefits to the station.

If you would like to enquire about holding an event or performance in St. Pancras please send your request through to specialevents@highspeed1.co.uk and a member of the team will come back to you as soon as possible.

If you represent a brand and would like to enquire about our high footfall popup spaces for brand activations or retail opportunities, please contact us for rates, specifications and lead times on specialevents@highspeed1.co.uk and a member of the team will come back to you.

PUBLIC PIANOS:

The public pianos were launched in 2012 when the City of London Festival celebrated its golden anniversary on a grand scale, presenting Play Me, I’m Yours with 50 golden street pianos spread across London landmarks and beauty spots for three weeks, from 24 June until 13 July 2012. At the end of the campaign, the pianos at St Pancras International remained available to play. There are currently 2 public pianos at the station, both located in the main Arcade, one of which was donated and signed by music legend, Elton John.

The pianos have become an integral part of the station’s community and have inspired many impromptu performances by countless members of public, young and old. The pianos bring people together and become a catalyst for conversation as people watch performances as they’re passing through. As part of the station’s planned annual event schedule, the pianos have also played host to flash mobs, professional orchestras, professional musicians, charity events and exciting famous faces, much to the delight of star-struck onlookers. More information on the famous faces who have played at the station can be found here. You can also see some of the public’s impromptu performances on social media via the hashtag #PianistsofStPancras. 

As primarily the pianos are for general enjoyment, we ask that anyone wishing to perform, photograph or film at the pianos for commercial gain, apply to use it for this purpose via the same form and contacts as below. This allows us to manage the pianos in a fair way, ensuring that the public can continue to tinkle the ivories for enjoyment as they pass through, but also allows us to give you the appropriate support needed for your activity should you need it for commercial reasons.

silverharp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121678075#Comment_121678075

I saw the suggestion that he should have Pooh bear on his piano and a plaque with 8964 on it. Pretty much like garlic to a vampire

RobbieTheRobber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121679852#Comment_121679852

Thanks for the link.

From the presentation the two below points are relevant here.

Seems like piano boy should have got permission.

"To the extent that any third-party consents are required,

it shall be your responsibility to obtain these consents."

As primarily the pianos are for general enjoyment, we ask that anyone wishing to perform, photograph or film at the pianos for commercial gain, apply to use it for this purpose via the same form and contacts as below. This allows us to manage the pianos in a fair way, ensuring that the public can continue to tinkle the ivories for enjoyment as they pass through, but also allows us to give you the appropriate support needed for your activity should you need it for commercial reasons

so it's looks like I was right.

The train station is not a public place and piano boy should have asked for permission to do his video.

As it's not a public place any video for commercial purposes may need the consent of third parties.

Anyway.

circadian

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMhx0Mn149Y

Something doesn't add up.

silverharp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121680140#Comment_121680140

this might explain the change in attitude

https://youtu.be/7aeBj6DgRLc?si=6yHbsjrE6NuusG-_

Montage of Feck

Never heard of this guy until this week, the algorithm is really pushing this story onto my social media accounts for some reason.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121680115#Comment_121680115

If the station felt he was violating this policy they would have him charged or tossed out and trespassed.

He's been at this station, according to his youtube channel, doing his thing for years. Many a time with police involvement. It seems like he just bothers busybodies but is not actually violating any policy that would warrant the kind of actions suggested.

Manic Moran

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121680115#Comment_121680115

“We ask” is not a mandate. “Persons are to…” “you must”… etc. those are mandates. Such language is notably missing from the document. Even if there were a mandate, the resolution is an action for trespass by the station operator.

As for debating whether or not it is a public place, instead of arguing the matter, why not just see if there is definition in UK law?

Oh, look, there is, in the Criminal Justice Act of 1972. ““Public place” includes any highway and any other premises or place to which at the material time the public have or are permitted to have access, whether on payment or otherwise”

Says nothing about ownership of the land.

RobbieTheRobber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121681769#Comment_121681769

Are the railway properties not covered by the railway bye laws then?

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/railway-byelaws/railway-byelaws

Manic Moran

I'm sure they are.

Which paragraph and line applies to this specific scenario, though? There is nothing in there about filming people. He wasn't using the piano 'to the annoyance of any person' (The Chinese objection was to the filming, not the playing of the piano). It requires written permission to override that limitation (i.e. with written permission, you may indeed use any instrument to the annoyance of any person), but the byelaw is silent on other requirements when such annoyance is not present.

I would note that as further evidence of this, if written permission were required for the recording of the piano playing not to the annoyance of others, then the station's guidelines would have used the mandatory verbiage mentioned above. (eg Pursuant to Railway Byelaws, if you want to record yourself playing piano, you must apply here for a license). The guidelines do not do so.

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121677201#Comment_121677201

Sure it's the same with Americans thinking they are protected by their constitution in other countries.

Even worse, Irish and English people thinking they have the first amendment right to free speech.

Numpties everywhere.

RobbieTheRobber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121685136#Comment_121685136

Both the officer and the piano man seemed to be under the impression that he could not be removed but it seems the officer could have asked him to leave.

I think both the piano man and the Chinese individuals could easily be accused in this instance of causing a nuisance and loitering. If they do not have approval to be there.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121685330#Comment_121685330

Only protected by our carrier strike groups overseas

TBF for paying overseas taxes, I don't know another country who will work harder to recover you in the event of an international incident. But I digress.

sliabh 1956

I came across Brendan a few years ago pre Covid he has Irish roots which he refers to sometimes . He is a brilliant Piano player and Boogie Woogie is his passion. I found his videos brilliant until Covid arrived. He was completely against any shutdowns wanted to keep playing publicly. He comes across now as a conspiracy believer and often makes a sly comment about US politics and stolen elections . To me its a shame as i really enjoy that type of Music . The whole Chinese debacle is weird its doing his You Tube profile no harm at all. Its interesting to note both Talk TV and GB News couldn't wait to have him on to discuss lack of freedom to express opinions ect.

donaghs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121685982#Comment_121685982

Should his possible political views (different to yours) mean he shouldn't be allowed play piano at train stations?

sliabh 1956

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121686105#Comment_121686105

Im a music fan and want to hear him playing that's all.

mulbot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121685982#Comment_121685982

He was also on Piers Morgan

Kermit.de.frog

In two minds about this

On the one hand he has the right to film anyone.

On the other hand these guys with cameras asserting their rights when someone might politely ask not to be filmed tend to act the prick over it themselves often obnoxiously looking for views instead of just not filming someone if they asked which most reasonable sane people would do.

That's not quite the case here and the Chinese guy is a bit aggressive.

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121687453#Comment_121687453

It’s all a bit of a storm in a China tea cup

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121687879#Comment_121687879

the tea appears plentiful

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rq7xZJlWFQg

Recorded earlier today presumably.

He's having fun winding up the communists in china at this point.

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121687453#Comment_121687453

I thought the Chinese guy was way OTT- if you see someone filming in a public place and you don’t want to be part of that filming, then don’t go near the guy with the camera; it’s not really that difficult.

Polite requests are all very fine, but if you come across someone who is just doing their own thing and need their camera to do that thing, it’s probably best that you just leave them to it.

I know the right wing media had a field day with this, but I didn’t like how the nasty allegations of touching were suddenly introduced and voice raised by the Chinese guy- he knew well what he was doing -

keeponhurling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121676472#Comment_121676472

Right, they may well be stooges, but working for Chinese TV doesn't necessarily make them party stooges

Maybe they were making a TV program about train stations or travel or something.

Not 100% of people in China like the CCP, but they still watch TV.