Ireland to join NATO...

MikeSoys

Fresh chatter that NATO is looking to include more countries into its umbrella in preparation to save western influence globally against Russia and others. Ireland is listed as a country they would like to include. I think we should stay neutral,our location means we can stay neutral - not sure though if war3 goes full on would we allow US NATO to land, refuel etc in Ireland before going onto east Europe.

Larbre34

Our location means we *cannot* stay neutral you mean?

In a conventional multi-theatre conflict, Ireland's geographical location is far more strategically significant now than it was in WW2, or would be in a nuclear war. For reasons of significant communications and energy infrastructure as well as economic value of the seas. Why else would our EEZ be full of naval activity, including electronic intelligence vessels from as far away as China?

We aren't in NATO, we won't be in NATO, but to the Russians, and everyone else, we are an inseparable part of the north Atlantic western alliance of NATO and the EU. Inextricably linked.

And to that point, we are now on the inside of that information sharing and cooperation envelope, come what may.

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058332826/ireland-to-join-nato

Yep, cause what the nations of NATO really want is another nations that has absolutely no intention of spending on defence. And if we ever see WW3 the idea of "neutrality" is going to last just as long as it takes for the first shots.

Dohvolle

It would be great if we were neutral, but while Elected TDs in the dail wear keffyeh and petition for the destruction of the State of Israel that is impossible.

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121661071#Comment_121661071

Or have no problems with Russia invading its neighbours, and lets not even touch the comments/actions of a pair of MEPs.

mupper2

As someone who doesn't really GAS about NATO, if we joined fine, if we don't OK, it basically doesn't change our own issues either way.

But people don't seem to grasp that the World's geopolitical/security situation is deteriorating and will get a lot worse...the comforting stability of the old Cold war will be looked back fondly to what's coming..

Psychlops

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121659973#Comment_121659973

Like Iceland you say...

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121662617#Comment_121662617

Iceland has a strategic position and no way of creating a credible defence capability, we just won't spend. Its already been briefed that members have no interest in us joining for example because we freeload.

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121662032#Comment_121662032

I agree with this.

As I type, a third round of attacks are underway by coalition air and naval forces on Houthi positions in Yemen.

One of about a dozen tinderboxes that could tip us all over.

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121662666#Comment_121662666

In peacetime, I'd agree with you.

But I feel like we're half in, and half out of peacetime right now.

Turkey approved Sweden's membership today, so things are moving on.

A NATO air and naval presence in Ireland could come about swiftly and unexpectedly, at the stroke of a government pen. I can't say what circumstances might directly precipitate that, but a whole lot of unforeseeable and frankly unthinkable things have happened over these last few years.

Dohvolle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121662734#Comment_121662734

Iran is the common denominator in so much of the current world conflict. They got their ass kicked when they went toe to toe in the 80s, so they use their proxies now to cause disruption. Still Aided and abetted by the Soviet Union, as in the 80s... I mean Russia.

mupper2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121662617#Comment_121662617

Iceland and Luxembourg were always given the dispensation that they would never be able to generate meaningful conventional forces, but Iceland's huge strategic postion in the GIUK gap and them paying for a lot of basing needs etc and Luxembourg's paying an outsized proportion for the AWACS fleet, generating forces here they could, buying an A400M even with no AF for it etc etc meant they were given the benefit..

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121662769#Comment_121662769

Correct.

I should say the news agencies got it wrong, there were no further strikes on Yemen tonight, the information from the UK MoD was expanded on last night's attack.

It just goes to show, even in this instant information World, the message can go awry.

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058332826/ireland-to-join-nato

We are not neutral as we are required to come to the aid of any member state of the EU under the terms of the treaty of Rome. So it almost a certainty that we will be committed to any future war on European soil.

A 42.7 of the treaty states:

If a Member State is the victim of armed aggression on its territory, the other Member States shall have towards it an obligation of aid and assistance by all the means in their power, in accordance with Article 51 of the United Nations Charter.

Neutrality was only ever government policy, that is until the voters decide otherwise in a referendum. Oh and France have invoke this article in the past and Ireland responded by sending additional Irish troops ton UN peace keep duties to release French troops needed back in France.

vswr

While a lot of people map "NATO membership" to 2% GDP of military hardware and commitment to wars some would say there is no public interest to participate in, this has never been the case. 2% can be formed from various means, and any offensive participation has been voluntary.

(Some people still don't like it to be pointed out the DF has had some form of participation in the majority of NATO involved ops since the 90's, as non members and subsequently partners for peace members)

While it's argued from a conventional warfare sense, Ireland would be low on the target list. In the world of hybrid warfare, it it very much in the top10 of target countries. It was this that prompted the joining of the CCDCOE. On the back of this, there is a further ongoing argument that Ireland's active security efforts securing technological supply chains and critical infrastructure (used by NATO counties) could very much so count towards the 2% GDP measure is a very interesting one. If it succeeds, there is no counter argument of "well we can't afford the 2% if we can't even build houses, hospitals or schools".... as we're technically already covering most (if not all) of it.

Interesting times though.

mupper2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121663146#Comment_121663146

You finished son?...several people in this thread have served in the mlitary. At least one has been to a war. So I say this with no due respect......

mupper2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121663173#Comment_121663173

Define "neutrality"

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121663173#Comment_121663173

You are free to believe whatever you want to believe, but A 42.7 is real and covers more than just military capabilities. Expecting Russia to start drawing distinctions between member states when it comes to military strikes is not going to happen. In times of war food supplies, medical equipment etc are needed in large quantities and Ireland has the ability to supply all of those. Neutrality is no longer a viable strategy, even here in Switzerland we have quietly given up on it and are supplying military hardware on a more flexible basis to EU states.

mupper2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121663207#Comment_121663207

Who said the Irish army.

mupper2

delete.

mupper2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121663201#Comment_121663201

He doesn't know what you're talking about..he doesn't know there are legalities/conventions on neutrality and we meet/never met virtually any of them

Anyway we get these lads rocking up every so often to tell us what they believe something is, with nothing to back it up bar a black belt in University debate jitsu, so time to mute...

sparky42

I love the view that in the event of another Global War somehow we can sit behind our "magical neutrality shield" and all the bad things just pass us by, particularly when this week we had an example of a Russian attack helicopter overflying our troops at their UN base...

We are not joining NATO.

vswr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121663289#Comment_121663289

I love that assertion, when we've technically joined their Cyber division already, and are in the Partneship for peace program.... Ireland couldn't be any closer to being in NATO, without actually saying they are fully fledged members, than they are at the moment.

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121663231#Comment_121663231

Well if Vlad wants to open up a second front to take the pressure of, landing fifty thousand troop in Ireland is a very easy option.... and 27 nations are committed to come to our aid....

vswr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121664661#Comment_121664661

The EU response on paper is "wooly" and untested.

If it was as firm as you make it out to be, there would have been no need for Sweden or Finland to join NATO.

MikeSoys

its well reported but in the uk with the low army recruitment numbers they are talking about conscription

from dailyMail - General Sir Patrick Sanders, Chief of the General Staff, will stress the need for ministers to 'mobilise the nation' ....

...when the rich wage war its the poor who die

fighting for other things but the right to have 'Strawberry Frappuccino With A Twist' on a coffee menu.

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121665615#Comment_121665615

No they aren’t, that’s not even close to what he said.

RoyalCelt

Considering we're becoming a social state for third world chancers I don't want us spending 2% of our GDP on defense. And considering we have a huge debt to repay.

mupper2

Oh good....

zone 1

better of to join , we need NATO to protect or airspace and sea as it is.