Ian Bailey RIP

Musicrules

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121925561#Comment_121925561

Yes I have. Are you saying Jules Thomas's daughters have dubious backgrounds? Or any of these that I mentioned earlier:

Fenella Thomas

Q. Can you recall the Monday morning after this murder, where were you and the rest of the household?

A. It was Christmas, I took the phone call.

Q. Where was Ian and Jules before their phone call.

A. They were in Goleen. I have a vague recollection of them going, it was about 9 or 10 then I think.

Q. When you got this phone call, what happened then?

A. I just gave Ian the phone, it was the Cassidy guy.

Q. How long were they (Ian and Jules) away from

 

Dick Cross

“ I have a distinct recollection that he told me he had pictures taken before the Gardai cordoned off the area.  I understood him to say he had taken pictures afterwards also.”

 

Ian Bailey

31.12.96

“Was going to go to Skibbereen in the early afternoon, but Cassidy’s phone call changed that so I was just “pottering” around until that.”

 

10.02.97

Got up early, made coffee for Jules and brought it to bed.   It was about 9.30a.m.-10a.m. went back to bed listened to the Radio.   Spoke about what had to be done and we were going to Skibbereen, Co. Cork together, to deliver a turkey and do some shopping.  Eddie Cassidy rang at about 2.30 p.m

(Nothing between 10 and the Cassidy call)

 

10.02.97 Later

Some time after going to bed I got up - Did a bit of writing - the kitchen.  I then went down to the studio I am not sure what time it was but it was dark.  I have no watch.  I had a story to write for Tribune and was told it was okay that Tuesday would do.  It was a story about the Internet.  I went back to Jules house at about 11a.m.

(Dramatic change in his story. - Unspecified time writing in the studio – uncorroborated then nothing between 11am and the Cassidy call.)

28.01.98

“Got up at 9 a.m. and went down to Studio to finish the article.”

One reference to a phone call (10.00-10.30 denied by others) but nothing on what he did throughout the morning.

[Pottering versus writing an article and phoning the Tribune. He has no corroboration for anything after 10am and offers no details , bar the alleged phone call between 10am and 1.40pm]

 

 

 

Richard Curran

“The deadline was in fact 12 noon on Monday the 23rd December, 1996.”

“He did not phone through his story by the deadline (12 noon).   The report was eventually phoned through at about 4p.m. on Monday 23/12/96.   I remember it because I was worried about it not arriving and I would have to come up with a replacement article if it didn’t arrive at all.”

Tom McEnaney

“On or before Thursday the 19.12.1996 I spoke to him and told him that the Monday morning was fine to file the copy.  I was reasonably relaxed about it but I said to him get it in by Monday morning.  When Monday (23.12.1996) morning came and went and the copy had not arrived I began to get nervous.”

“To my recollection I attempted to contact Eoin Bailey on the Monday unsuccessfully.  He filed his copy over the phone to a copytaker at about 5p.m. on Monday the 23rd December 1996. I can confirm that it was Eoin Bailey who filed the copy as I had the call transferred to my line as I wished to enquire about the photograph.”

 

 

Bill Fuller 317

. I drove down the road then towards Kealfadda Bridge. A short distance from Riley’s I saw a white fiesta in front of me, I knew it straight away as Jules car and I knew that it was Jules driving it. It was about 11 a.m. at this stage. I followed her, I was in my jeep a Volkswagen Transporter, blue, Reg. No. 88 C 3543, all the way to the main Schull-Goleen Road where she turned left and then immediately turned right across the causeway. She was alone in the car at all times.

James Camier 472

I recall Monday 23rd December, 1996.

Between 11a.m. and 11.30a.m., Jules Thomas, Prairie, Lissacaha, Schull whom I know well, approached the Stall. I know this lady well. I was struck by the fact that she was very distressed. There was a distraught, strange complexion about her. She looked very worried. …Out of the blue, she followed up on "Ian Conversation", by saying "Ian is gone to Dreenine to report on the murder". I may have asked her, "What murder?" She replied" A French woman". She hung her head, "it's sad, but that's his job, to report on these things or something like that"…….. ……. I have no doubt in my mind, I first heard the news of the murder from Jules Thomas, between 11 a.m. and 11:30 a.m. on Monday 23rd December, 1996

 

 

Jules Thomas

08.06.97

“On the Monday of the murder Ian was very busy getting an article ready for the press, I drove down past the scene at about lla.m. and onto the causeway.  “

“If Fennella said that I brought home some vegetables it must have been the Monday I was in Goleen”

“I did have a conversation with Jimmy Camier”

 

Michael McSweeney

“He then went on to say that it w

as in fact his girlfriend who took the photographs when they were there earlier.  I asked him what time was that and he replied that it was around 11.00a.m. that morning.

“After 2 p.m. on 23rd December 1996, I was contacted by Eoin Bailey who informed me that he had a roll of film of the scene of the murder of Sophie Toscan Du Plantier taken that morning at about 10.30a.m.”

 

Paul O’Colmain

I heard of the murder of this French woman. I have thought long and hard about the time of this call and to the best of my recollection it was between 11 a.m. and 11:30 a.m. on the morning of the murder.

Donal O’Sullivan

Re 23.12.96

“It was between 12.20p.m. and 12.30p.m”

“I met a white Fiesta that I knew belonged to Jules Thomas who lives at The Prairie, Schull”

“There were two people in this car, a man who I know to be Ian Bailey and Jules Thomas.  I thought Ian Bailey was driving the car.   The reason it stuck in my mind is because it was unusual to meet them on the coast road.   I would often meet them on the Schull to Goleen road. “ 

Tell me how all those 8 people had personal grudges against Bailey and then start working through all the Gardaí, all his neighbours, every single witness who went against Bailey and you might as well tell me how the turkey and the Christmas tree were dubious characters as well. Thanks.

Deeec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121925577#Comment_121925577

He submitted it late because there had been a significant event in the area and he was distracted by it. There is nothing suspicious about that. Have you never had a day where an event happens and your plans for the day change?

Musicrules

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121925615#Comment_121925615

Re-read my post, you forgot that he wasn't supposed to know about the murder until 1:40pm, oops.

tobefrank321

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121925577#Comment_121925577

Yes a very difficult article that he got up in the middle of the night to write while supposedly half-cut. Its worth questioning at the very least, but nope waved through by the DPP.

I believe the deadline was actually pushed out to Tuesday in the end but he submitted it Monday evening.

Musicrules

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121925659#Comment_121925659

Of course it's worth questioning. I think it's clear that the DPP made some serious errors.

Just on the deadline. Hopefully the cold case team are looking into that as well. These statements are worth looking at:

Richard Curran

“The deadline was in fact 12 noon on Monday the 23rd December, 1996.”

“He did not phone through his story by the deadline (12 noon).   The report was eventually phoned through at about 4p.m. on Monday 23/12/96.   I remember it because I was worried about it not arriving and I would have to come up with a replacement article if it didn’t arrive at all.”

Tom McEnaney

“On or before Thursday the 19.12.1996 I spoke to him and told him that the Monday morning was fine to file the copy.  I was reasonably relaxed about it but I said to him get it in by Monday morning.  When Monday (23.12.1996) morning came and went and the copy had not arrived I began to get nervous.”

“To my recollection I attempted to contact Eoin Bailey on the Monday unsuccessfully.  He filed his copy over the phone to a copytaker at about 5p.m. on Monday the 23rd December 1996. I can confirm that it was Eoin Bailey who filed the copy as I had the call transferred to my line as I wished to enquire about the photograph.”

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121925569#Comment_121925569

How many of those 'hundreds' had their exact movements questioned and scrutinised like Bailey over the course of that night?

Would the Guards even have noted it?

The Guards didn't think most of the statements about the disturbances in the area were worthy of attention as noted below... items that was not helpful to them in the case against Bailey had a tendency to be "lost" or forgotten about etc

However the following six statements, five of which were not submitted with the original Garda file, indicate the following:-

tobefrank321

More apparent inconsistencies which were ignored by the DPP - happy for someone to explain this inconsistency though.

Page 11

In the Interview with Bailey on 10 February 1997 (6C) Bailey asserts, "I didn't kill that lady, I didn't kill her. The Gardaí state "you have told us several times on this day that you went home from the Galley Pub with Jules, then went to bed and did not get up until the following morning. Now you have told the other Officer that you in fact did get up that night and left Jules's house." Bailey responded, "yes, I now remember that I did get up and go to my studio to do some work". It is common case that Bailey had to submit an article to The Sunday Tribune later that day. The Gardaí "Why are you now changing your story regarding that night, is it because you were aware that Jules is now saying that you did get up." Bailey responded, "No, I remember now."

Page 19

At interview 6D it was put to him that witnesses saw him at 3.15 a.m. near Kealfadda Bridge. He responded these people are mistaken. I was in bed.

It can only be assumed here that interview 6D came after interview 6C. So in interview 6C Bailey states "yes, I now remember that I did get up and go to my studio to do some work" Yet in the next interview he's back to stating he was in bed - "I was in bed."

Its hard to reconcile his statements here, if 6D came after 6C. And we know he peddled both these alibis at various times.

Seth Brundle

Looks like another garda investigation that was riddled either errors which has delayed justice by over three decades (and yet some think it would be impossible in the Sophie murder case)...

The cold case team, appointed last year at the time of the 30th anniversary of the disappearance of the American student, has uncovered a series of errors in the original investigation.

The narrative around McCarrick’s last movements for three decades has been undermined by the forensic work of the new Garda team, who now believe the story of her disappearance may have been closer to her home in Sandymount, Dublin, and not in Johnny Fox’s pub in Glencullen in the Dublin mountains, as originally thought.

Speaking to The Irish Times from her home on Long Island in New York, Ms McCarrick’s mother Nancy has confirmed she is very impressed by the Garda team this time around.

“Members of the team have visited me twice, and their forensic attention to detail has been impressive. They have started from the beginning again, and are re-examining every detail,” she said.

“They have also kept in regular contact since last year, and I am aware they are continuing to track down people who may be in a position to help with their inquiries.”

https://www.irishtimes.com/crime-law/2024/03/23/photo-of-annie-mccarrick-thought-to-be-last-image-of-her-on-day-she-disappeared-in-1993-was-taken-11-days-earlier/

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121929714#Comment_121929714

Yeah a clean sheet and start again with capable and experienced investigators is the way to go

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121929714#Comment_121929714

Is there a non paywall version of that article anywhere?

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121929772#Comment_121929772

Sites such as archive.ph may assist

chooseusername

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121925614#Comment_121925614

Just picked one of those out;

Jules Thomas

08.06.97

“On the Monday of the murder Ian was very busy getting an article ready for the press, I drove down past the scene at about lla.m. and onto the causeway.  “

“If Fennella said that I brought home some vegetables it must have been the Monday I was in Goleen”

“I did have a conversation with Jimmy Camier”

Is that a Garda statement Jules made in June 1997? Why would she be driving down Kealfada on her way to the causeway?

StormForce13

The cynic in me suspects that Jimbo is merely trying to promote his latest oeuvre, but I share his opinion re. Bailey's innocence.

"Film director Jim Sheridan has said that the late Ian Bailey “probably was 100% innocent” of the murder of Sophie Toscan du Plantier in West Cork.

The battered body of the 39-year-old French film producer was found near her holiday home in Toormore on the outskirts of Schull in West Cork on December 23, 1996. Mr Sheridan said he believes the case is a "double injustice".

“I feel Sophie’s murderer has never been found, her death has never been avenged. A man who probably was 100% innocent has been castigated through life; he lived a horrible life and died a horrible death and has a horrible name," he told Newstalk Breakfast."

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/munster/arid-41648618.html

Seth Brundle

Given that there is absolutely no evidence linking Bailey to the murder, Jim is correct in that he is "probably was 100% innocent".

As for his comment "I feel Sophie’s murderer has never been found", well, if you don't look for something, you probably won't find it! There is no evidence that the garda investigation put much, if any, effort into looking at other suspects compared to Bailey.

And as for "her death has never been avenged", it probably never will be. Given tampering of evidence by members of AGS and other corrupt practices, any suspect eventually charged surely will manage to have their case dismissed

billie1b

My next door neighbour is a full blown alcoholic, she uses the bushes down the side of my garden to stash her FULL bottles of wine so when her family are over and searching they don't find anything. Alcoholics/people fond of drink are very cunning and great manipulators

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123534737#Comment_123534737

Have you a point to that which is relevant to the thread?

Or is it just a way to say Bailey was an alco so therefore must be guilty because, over nearly three decades, he manipulated the gardai into finding no usable evidence against him at all?

odyssey06

Bailey wasnt hiding his drinking. Often had a whiskey at home. If he did have a bottle somewhere it wouldnt be an expensive bottle of french wine needing a corkscrew.

So it seems a moot point.

Fr Tod Umptious

Jim Sheridan needs the idea that Bailey is innocent to continue to sell his wares.

If in any way the Gardai can prove he did it then Sheridan will have to find something else to make films about.

lee_baby_simms

Most addicts have to lie to conceal their addiction. But being an addict doesn’t grant an ability to manipulate. And stashing wine in your garden doesn’t indicate a capability of committing cold blooded murder.

billie1b

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123534861#Comment_123534861

Just making the point that alcos hide alcohol, whether it be wine, spirits etc and people who think otherwise are mistaken. No need for the insolent remark.

Mod - warned for breach of forum charter

briany

Wait, how did the French find Bailey guilty if there was no forensic evidence against him? I remember a documentary saying something about the French justice system having different a different method of trying cases…

billie1b

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123535241#Comment_123535241

French judicial system is opposite, guilty unitl proven innocent, you have to prove your innocence

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123535241#Comment_123535241

The French have a system where they can try a person, in absentia, for crimes committed against a French person abroad.

The burden of proof in these trials is very low compared to a full trial.

If found guilty they can seek that the defendant be extradited to France to face a full trial.

This is what happened in the Bailey case.

He was found guilty in absentia, the Irish authorities refused to extradite him to France.

Most right thinking people consider that French trial as a sham.

George White

70something Meaney (a man internationally notorious for his inability to sound English) is ludicrous miscasting.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123535266#Comment_123535266

A younger Patrick Bergin would have been a good fit physically.

Im hoping we will get a good summary of the Sheridan film on the thread of any new info. Assuming there is any. Too much about the production off putting for me, dodgy casting and contrived structure. I was expecting more from Sheridan.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123535241#Comment_123535241

They used "evidence" supplied by the gardai which had already been discredited by the DPP here. Even Marie Farrell's witness statement was used ‐ the french Prosecutor described her witness statement as "fundamental" 🙄

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123535760#Comment_123535760

The French judiciary was doing an influential French family a favour, or was trying to do so.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123538940#Comment_123538940

So, you agree that they didn’t provide justice for Sophie but merely gave them a result to keep the family happy?

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123538947#Comment_123538947

It always appeared to be so.

I mean, it's more than odd that a European EU country's court convicts somebody for murder based on hearsay and statements of a coerced witness. It always made me wonder why Bailey never tried to take this to the European court of justice.

The basic problem is that justice could never be provided in the first place as the Irish police were so poor at their job. There was never any real evidence.

However this thread is about Ian Bailey, not the murder or the investigation. There is another thread for that.