Clever Dripper Newbie

adox

So tried my first brew with the clever dripper yesterday morning and it didn’t go well.

i followed Hoffmanns 15g coffee to 250g water and brewed as recommended but the end result was just a sour, quite unpleasant cup that barely tasted of coffee.

now it could be the coffee I used. It was only roasted on the 15th and ground for me by the roaster but checking the notes again maybe it’s just not for me. Listed notes are rum, raisin, grapefruit and funky it I didn’t expect them to dominate.

Maybe it’s the water I used. I used tap water for the brew. For reference we drink bottled water because we don’t like the taste from the tap and I’ve been using bottled for the pod machine.

I was surprised at how bad it tasted. I’m off to a bad start and hoping I can get a cup from it that I like before it becomes another item left on the shelf.

This is the coffee I used:

Honduras - Osman Rene Romero Melgar - 96hr Macerated Natural — West Cork Coffee

Origin: Honduras Farm ; Osman Rene Romero Melgar Region: Celaque, Copan Variety: Catuai Rojo & Parainema Altitude: 1200 MASL Process: 96hr Macerated Natural ( Organic ) “ Rum, raisin, grapefruit, funky ” Osman is the owner of the farm San Isidro, located in the Celaque are

 www.westcorkcoffee.ie

Any thoughts advice would be greatly appreciated. I don’t want to give up but it’s pricey buying coffee, especially if you really don’t like it

Edit: brewed another cup this morning with a couple of tweaks and much better results.

Changed the dose to 18g of coffee to 250g of water. Also used bottle water instead of tap and the results were much better. Still had the funky characteristics but much less dominant this time and more rounded with some sweetness.

Brew time was two minutes once the coffee was added to the water and stirred a then a final gentle stir and let settle for 30 seconds before drawdown which was approx 90 seconds.

If anything I found the brew a little weak for my tastes. It was certainly a huge improvement on yesterday’s effort which I presume was under extracted(I didn’t time the drawdown and the brew was shorter). Also I think the tap water was tainting the taste.

I had plans to buy a manual grinder but I think I’ll experiment more with the clever dripper before committing. I just want to make sure it’s something I use regularly.

I only have the pod machine a few months and it’s fine for what it is but generates huge waste. I’m a mug of coffee type drinker with occasional espresso. The cafes of France, Italy and Spain serving my style of coffee.

Anyway after this monstrously long post, any advice on experimenting or what my suit my palette would be greatly appreciated. I’m kind of thinking of buying cheaper ground coffee in the likes of Lidl to experiment before dipping my toe into artisan beans again. Or maybe buying the manual grinder and going from there?

caviardreams

I generally use 21g with 330ml and a drawdown time of usually 1:15 give or take. I brew for 3 mins - stir, leave it for 30-45 seconds to settle.

Find it makes a nice brew for the most part - with tweaking depending on the beans

Are you getting any bitterness at all? If so it is possible the grind is a bit fine.

adox

Thanks. I didn’t get any bitterness. It was much more rounded than the very sour first effort.

The coffee has been pre ground so I’ve no room there to adjust. It why I’m thinking of picking up a manual grinder. Can get a decent one for €90 or so.

I tend to like more dark chocolatey, nutty, slightly sweet coffees than fruity so I guess the coffee I chose didn’t really help.

Having said that there was a huge improvement this morning from yesterday.

caviardreams

Great - it is all a bit of trial and error tbh but that is half the fun!

You won't look back from getting a grinder - so much flexibility. Clever is a great little brewer imo

Colombian, Peru, even a good natural Brazil sound like they might be worth a go for you.

alec76

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121647917#Comment_121647917

Pick up a bag of Slumber Jack from Lidl , it is very dark roast , Italian/french type of coffee. Very opposite to what most coffee snobs would like.

Hodors Appletart

Just on the coffee you are using - have you had Natural process coffees before, the fact you are surprised that the listed flavours dominate maybe tell me that you haven't had such coffees in the past? With any non-washed processing you are going to get varying levels of funk and weird fruitiness from the coffee - and these are macerated in a (presumably) rum barrel for almost 4 days.

"Barely tasted of coffee" is a good description of these processes. Some people absolutely love them. I do, but I love all sorts of fermented foods like Sauerkraut, Kimchi, sour beers, funky jamaican rum, fermented hot sauce - the fermentation and maceration of the cherries before the beans are removed for roasting imparts these flavours to the coffee, and into the cup after brewing.

I'd advise getting some washed Brazilian or Columbian coffee, and see how that goes for you, Clever Dripper Hoffman method (23/325) is my goto method, at least twice a day, and I've never had a "bad" cup, or anything unexpected.

Sourness can also be down to under-extraction, which means you may need to adjust your grind size, water temperature or brew time, or a combination of those.

If you are sticking to the timings on the Hoffmann method then your brew time should be grand.

Who is grinding your beans? sourness could mean they are not fine enough - you don't need expresso fineness, but you also need it a bit finer than what you might use in a French Press.

What temp water are you using? I find with the Hoffman Method I bet bets results with water right off the boil, don't allow it to cool to below 95c before adding the grounds.

Just to recap the Hoffman Method

• Medium-fine grind - 15g to 250g Ratio (measure the water in grams too).
• Water in first then the grounds and stir to incorporate, steep for 2 minutes
• After 2 minutes swirl the dripper to break the crust, and leave for another 30 seconds, then drip into the cup

adox

Wow thank you for the detailed response and explanation. Yes I had never tasted a natural process coffee before so had no reference point. I’m glad to hear the coffee is probably as was to be expected.

Regarding the grind, I don’t have a grinder(I have one coming next week)so got the roaster to grind them. I selected medium grind from their options.

I stuck to Hoffmans formula and used water straight from the boil.

Thanks for explanation. Everyday is a learning day and I’m glad I’m not going bananas with the taste of the coffee.

im going to go more basic coffees and work my way from there.

Hodors Appletart

im going to go more basic coffees and work my way from there.

This is a good option, and as I said Brazilian, Colombian washed are a good starting point, what I'd advise then is to move to some of the east/east-central African beans, Ethiopia, Rwanda, Kenya, Burundi, Uganda all produce coffees with interesting flavour profiles, even the washed beans are "different" enough as to satisfy the curious.

Then start looking for the different processes.

Just a note on the "booze" descriptor - for a lot of people their only reference point for fermented flavours is alcoholic drinks, and for some of the coffees with this listed, when you open the bag you can get aromas of drinks like brandy, rum, whiskey - even if those drinks never came near the beans. Some roasters lean into those flavours and put the beans into barrels that previously contained those drinks for a time during the processing period.

Finally, if you are selecting Medium grind from the roaster, I suspect they are giving options like Fine (espresso) and Coarse, if you can, ask them to grind somewhere between medium and fine.

adox

Sorry to be a pain guys but could anyone suggest a decent washed Brazilian bean to try out?

Hodors Appletart

you'll get decent washed South American beans from almost any roaster, I'll check a few of my favourites for you

Hodors Appletart

here's a couple of coffees to consider

First one is a blend, from Badger and Dodo, their Blackwater Blend is always well regarded as both an espresso and infusion coffee, you can specify the grind, and for a clever I'd pick the Aeropress (Med Fine) grind option (this is based on my own grinder at home, I use the same setting for Clever and Aero).

https://badgeranddodo.ie/coffee/blend/blackwater-blend/

Here's a washed from Guatemala also from B&D, tasting notes show Milk Chocolate, Vanilla Nougat, Praline

https://badgeranddodo.ie/coffee/guatemala-del-valle/

adox

Lovely thanks a million. Ordered both( 2 bags of the second to get free delivery).

I ordered whole beans as have a grinder arriving on Monday.

Thanks again.

2011abc

That West Cork Honduran sound FLIPPIN' amazing !I just ordered a bag !Ive used the Clever more or less as a pourover cone /'V60' for a couple years now .I started my coffee journey on french press and gave up trying to convince myself I liked liquid ashtray .I think at the risk of oversimplfying ,95%* of people are EITHER 'coffee' flavoured (nutty /chocolate / toffee 'notes' ) coffee drinkers or pourover fans who like to actually taste what it says on the tin be it citrus /dried fruit etc etc .Ive been comparing the V60 and Clever for a few months now and as far as I can see not only does the Clever nose ahead ever so slightly on flavour but it has far less of a 'petrol' appearance on surface which suggests its filtering more potentially unhealthy oils (Some say heavy french press coffee drinking can increase risk of heart disease )

• The 'ultimate' 5% of coffee 'experts' are those who can make espressos that have those flavours the pourover fans crave but myself and most others Id imagine can rarely rise above 'strong coffee' flavoured espressos
• 
  

adox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121677570#Comment_121677570

I’m having a cup of it again this morning. It’s much much nicer now that I know what to expect. I made this mistake of adding milk to it before which doesn’t suit it imo.

Rum and raisin and I can actually taste “coffee” this time too. 21g/330g Hoffman method with 1.15 draw down.

I’ll be using up to rest of the bag anyway which I didn’t think I would after the first two cups!

alec76

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121680693#Comment_121680693

You not adding milk/sugar/syrup into expensive coffee, it just very wasteful and pointless, you could get very similar taste with the cheapest coffee .

adox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121680824#Comment_121680824

I tried it black first and only added a drop of milk to see if it would take some of the funk off it. I don’t use syrups of sugar.

2011abc

No milk used in pourovers .

adox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121682573#Comment_121682573

That is something I honestly didn’t know.

Maybe I should look at an alternative to the clever dripper if I want a cup and add milk to it.

alec76

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121682703#Comment_121682703

It just normally people using medium /light roast beans with pourover . If you get dark roasted beans then it should be fine with milk.

Don’t get expensive ones as most of the dark roasted beans taste almost the same , as a charcoal. That’s the reason poor quality beans normally roasted to very dark oily profile and good beans to medium/light so they won’t lose the flavours.

adox

Bags of coffee beans here ready to be drunk and no grinder in sight. Good old Amazon letting me down again!

alec76

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121691995#Comment_121691995

Choosing the grinder could be tricky you had right to ask advice about it before buying one of those.

What have you ordered anyway?

adox

Ordered a manual grinder. Timemore C3s pro.

alec76

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121692868#Comment_121692868

It’s good manual grinder I believe.

adox

So it looks like I won’t have the grinder until next week now.

Should I stick the beans in the freezer? In the bags they came in?

2011abc

Ive got a Timemore C2(C3?) also .Its grand ,wont do better up to 100 euro .I think 160 approx gets you into ZXpresso budget range territory and at 250-300 its between the Commandante and ZXpresso higher range models .Your Timemore has the newer burr which is way faster at fine grinds i believe .I clean mine between weekly and monthly depending on usage and you DO notice the difference .

I did THIS

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_3D7YkQDOc

with mine with a folded 'post-it' and found the grind more consistent .It also revealed more coffee dust that wasnt been cleaned out even with compressed air .

The truth is that the biggest variable by far in pourover with beans is the beans themselves .You get what you pay for and a lot mistakenly spend hundreds on gear when a tenner more on a bag would make far far more difference .

EDIT Mine has tiny phillips head screws instead of the metal disc rotated with the two 'picks'

Hodors Appletart

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121694372#Comment_121694372

yeah, stick them in the freezer.

caviardreams

yeah I agree - once you have a decent burr grinder of some sort, the beans will make the biggest difference imo

have fun trying them out :)

2011abc

adox Im sorry to report that WCC Honduran was not my cup of tea ( fruity , acidic filter ) and I’ve tried it twice with different grind settings .More rum and raisin ground fine and grapefruit coarse .

Now the roast date is a shockingly fresh ONE DAY OLD (!) although unlike a similarly regretted purchase it doesn’t bloom/ bubble like a kids Mentos prank experiment .It may improve in a week or two but I’m not optimistic .The ‘notes’ mentioned are faint and bland .

Ive noticed that my favourite beans grind tough and hard like mahogany or even concrete .And you’ve had your moneys worth even after grinding , brewing and sniffing them !

Id recommend you try some of the premium products from Bell Lane , Bear Market ( they do a nice ,cheap orangey ‘House Holy Roast’ ) or my personal favourites Groundwork’s .The Avoca orangey one is the cheapest nice blend .

Anything Colombian by Jairo Arcila is to die for

Brew Lab in Dublin up past Stephen’s Green near Aungier Street is probably the National HQ for sit in filter coffee ,( another ‘upmarket’ coffee place I visited last weekend had to have two attempts at even making a filter coffee which didn’t inspire confidence but I guess at least they didn’t slap up rubbish in front of me - still wasn’t great though :-( ) beans and gear although criminally they don’t sell online

In my admittedly limited experience anything that JUST says Choc / Nut / Toffee/ Honey / Shortbread is same-ish and not for pour over lovers

adox

Thanks all for the feedback. Much appreciated.

@2011abc the C3s Pro has the new burrs alright, slightly bigger capacity and all the internal parts that were plastic upgraded to metal.

Sorry to hear you didn’t get on with the Honduran and to be honest, after drinking 5 or 6 cups of it now it’s not for me either.

I did get it pre ground but was in contact with the roaster and told him I’d be using a clever dripper to brew so he knew(hopefully) the ground required.

I actually have three bags of beans here(now in the freezer waiting for grinder) suggested by the very helpful Hodors Appletart. Badger and Dodo. Linked in an earlier post.

Blackwater Blend x 1

Guatemala Del Valle x 2

They smelled gorgeous through the bag.

adox

Grinder arrived today! Told the Mrs to take a bag of beans out of the freezer. Probably be tomorrow before they are ready to try out.

alec76

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121700589#Comment_121700589

You could give them 20 minutes or so, I grind them almost immediately sometimes.

Hodors Appletart

I grind straight out of the freezer, it certainly wouldn't take a day

2011abc

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nxmrSgwW25g

lots to digest in this video.My big takeaway was to pour gently over an inverted teaspoon to reduce height and agitation .Instant great results !

2011abc

Now refined above technique by slowly pouring over a dinner sized fork .Reduces pressure /agitation on bed even more .