Can I ask for evidence on motoring offence

butler_767

I was pulled over by a member of the Gardai. He asked for my licence, I provided it, he wrote down the details. Then he took my reg. He came back to the window gave me my licence and as he walked away said I will receive a fixed charge notice in post

I called back to him and asked what it was for. He said being on phone. I wasn't on the phone my van has android auto with Bluetooth connectivity.

My question is can I ask for evidence of the offence as I have no idea why he is accusing me.

Hopefully this post makes sense, thanks in advance for your advice.

Luna84

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058332218/can-i-ask-for-evidence-on-motoring-offence

Unfortunately for you it's your word against his and the judge will side with the Garda if you decide to contest it in court.

standardg60

I doubt you'll receive anything tbh, he would have given it to you there and then.

butler_767

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121640801#Comment_121640801

Is that how it works? I've never been given a ticket before.

bmc58

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121640803#Comment_121640803

If you have been wronged by the Garda you will have to plead your case in court.If your evidence is believable you will be acquited.

BagofWeed

Request to see or send a letter to the superintendent or inspector of the Garda station he works out of and contact the Garda Ombudsman. www.gardaombudsman.ie

Del2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121640849#Comment_121640849

The Garda will just say that they saw you on the phone. To fight it you need to go to court and as @Luna84 said it'll be your word against the Garda, the judge will believe the Garda. The offence is holding not using so call/data logs are no use. Unless you have a driver facing camera you can't win.

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121640803#Comment_121640803

If he was stopping you for said reason he would have explained so, not doing so until you asked says to me he just wanted to check you out.

BagofWeed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121640936#Comment_121640936

When he is denying the charge in court he can make reference to the fact that he put in a complaint to the ombudsman and requested and/or wrote to the superintendent or inspector.

It might make the guard think twice the next time especially if there are multiple complaints coming in from the public about him.

Jim_Hodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121641066#Comment_121641066

Mights and Ifs are a bit of a gamble.

butler_767

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121641116#Comment_121641116

That's why I wanted to know if I can ask to see the evidence. I know I wasn't on the phone but I do sit with my head propped up by my hand (especially in traffic). I'd like to see any evidence cause if its worth fighting i would but if the evidence looks too bad it might not be worth it

Ash.J.Williams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121640936#Comment_121640936

If you question a garda in court and you're innocent he'll buckle as it will be too much effort

Ash.J.Williams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121641132#Comment_121641132

The only evidence needed is a picture of you on your phone , if you're innocent then fight it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121640803#Comment_121640803

No. You receive it by post.

Luna84

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121641149#Comment_121641149

I can tell you were never in court. A Garda buckling in court. RIGHT!

As I said above the judge will side with the Garda know matter what. I know people who were in the same place and didn't win.

But the guy resting his head on his hand up high is a weird one regarding a court day. All I can tell you is sit normal.

Ash.J.Williams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121641202#Comment_121641202

You can't tell

If a garda can't prove he was on the phone he will give up

Luna84

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121641213#Comment_121641213

I don't know what dream world or Hollywood movie you seen that in but that is far from reality.

Jim_Hodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121641149#Comment_121641149

You're joking right???

Ash.J.Williams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121641222#Comment_121641222

Going by my experience. I had accepted a phone charge but challenged a second and literally the second the judge asked his side he caved , saw it with other cases that day too

tayto lover

I seriously doubt that you'll hear anymore about it. He'd have given you a ticket there and then.

Witcher

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121641269#Comment_121641269

You don't get the fine handed to you at the roadside.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121641269#Comment_121641269

Right, first of all we don’t get “tickets” it’s not the US.. we get Fixed Charge Notices and they are delivered by post.

laoismanj

I fought this and won. A jumped up garda in naas pulled me over for what i thought would have been dirty number plates, he then said i was on my phone, that he seen me on the phone, he refused to give me his name and i was in total shock so to cut a long story short , i had no credit that day as it was the day before payday(paid monthly) and i provided my call logs that i hadnt been on the phone nor sent or recieved any messages to my solicitor. The guard never turned up to court and it was thrown out in the day.

All in all i would have went to prison before i paid that wrongful fine, the guy was a complete d**ckhead and the fact is you cannot randomly stop someone for revenue for no reason

mikeecho

What type of evidence are you looking for?

ger664

If it was a traffic core vehicle they are equipped with Dash Cams. Get a solicitor to go to the station and request the footage of the stop if you have received a fix notice for this.

Green Peter

Just be careful, he may have video evidence and if he's right and you are spinning a story to the court you could find yourself on the shanks mare.

Slightly Kwackers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121641786#Comment_121641786

How are your call logs evidence?

You would be trying to prove a negative.

How are you able to prove it wasn't you using a different phone or SIM? If the guard took all the details fine, you could be tied to that equipment at that time, but if he took those details he would know full well a prosecution was pointless.

Even with the phone details confirming no calls, if he didn't search yourself and the car for another device, then your evidence is a tad lacking.

SteelyDanJalapeno

Could maybe use cellular triangle techniques to prove there was or wasn't another phone in the vehicle

drunkmonkey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121642098#Comment_121642098

If the Garda can't provide video footage and op's call logs show other calls that day but not at the time of the offence I'd expect it to be dismissed. This assumption the Judge will believe everything a Garda says is misguided, he'll need to prove an offence took place and said isn't good enough if there's contradictory hard evidence.

Op needs to find out what solicitors work that court and contact one of them if the notice does appear and he has some evidence.

Del2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121642362#Comment_121642362

The offence is holding a phone not using a phone. Call logs prove you weren't using the phone, they don't prove you where holding the phone. The Gardaí don't need video evidence, it's handy if they have it, but their word is considered higher than the defendants by the judge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121641786#Comment_121641786

You didn't fight it and win as the case was dismissed, big difference.

drunkmonkey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121642385#Comment_121642385

Correct, having evidence you weren't using the phone for a call and having a car kit installed at the time of the offence is in his favour though. The Garda has no evidence it seems in this case. Then it's down to the Judge to weigh up the evidence and with op's clean record and a good solicitor the Garda may lose his case which believe it or not does happen.

FAILSAFE 00

I doubt the guard would even show in court.

If they do show I'd let them say they seen you with the phone to your ear talking then show call records, receipts for car phone kit, etc

Calahonda52

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121641786#Comment_121641786

this is why it didn't stick

The guard never turned up to court and it was thrown out in the day.

Your assessment is pie in sky

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121640849#Comment_121640849

That is just sov cit nonsense.

Rustyman101

TBF the amount of people on actual phones and obviously texting, ie looking down into their laps in traffic.

You would wonder why the need to make up charges !

Not saying you were using your phone on the day.

As another poster said maybe just checking you out and the phone was just a bye the way and the end.

Probably here no more

JVince

An awful lot of codswallop here.

Gardai don't give tickets at the roadside

Gardai don't "buckle" in court

Garda ombudsman will file such rubbish under "bin"

Garda WILL turn up in court unless he is out ill or a higher priority issue is pertinent.

If the op is genuine and did not have his phone in his hand, then fight it. Solicitor not required. (They'll charge €100) Having Bluetooth and maybe usage logs may help, but it's how you present on the day.

You might need to attend a preliminary hearing too.

A letter to the superintendent might be an option if you really think the Garda was acting the pr1ck. And if it does go to court you can mention this too.

Norrie Rugger Head

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121642455#Comment_121642455

It happens, i also put my elbow on the door and rest my head in my hand.

Got pulled over, told that I was getting a FCN for holding a phone. Only, and very luckily, that I was coming home from 5-a-side and my phone was in my gearbag in the boot.

He only backed down when I actually showed him

Ash.J.Williams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121642030#Comment_121642030

If he had video evidence then our op is guilty but he said he isn't therefore no evidence is possible

cml387

Anyway, one could still be scrolling their Whatsapp messages or looking at Tik Tok videos. Call logs prove nothing.

csirl

A letter to the Superintendent wont help you - they'll either ignore it or back the guard. Complaining to him would likely guarantee the guard will pursue it to court.

GSOC complaint wont be concluded until after you District Court case - and the guards will push for the prosecution to "prove" they were right (GSOC outcome would be that you were ajudged to have done it in court - they cant challenge a judicial decision).

As for evidence - District Court relies heavily on "sworn evidence" ......sure a guard would never lie in court.

Unfortunately unless you have proof or other witnesses willing to give sworn evidence, there's very little you can do.

BagofWeed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121642424#Comment_121642424

He has every right to do it and to show he is serious that the Garda is in fact a liar.

If you have some loose dirt you need a brush ! Accumulated dirt is harder to get rid of.

Del2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121642408#Comment_121642408

Every car I've hired for the last decade or more has had Bluetooth yet you still see people holding their phone to their ear while driving or texting, watching movies or sport while driving. Again the offence is holding not using a phone, logs prove nothing.

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121643909#Comment_121643909

When it comes down to it, it will be up to the judge to decide between the credibility of the Garda's evidence versus that of the OP and playing these kind of silly "Sov Cit" games is exactly how to present yourself as bit of idiot and not credible in such situations, you just get lumped in with all the other nutters the judge hears from every other day. The OP needs to present the call logs showing he was not on the phone at the time, that is you challenge this kind of stuff, you leave up the the judge to decide if the Garda is a liar or not. Play silly games win silly prices as they say.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121644150#Comment_121644150

Where in the call logs will it show that someone was on Facebook?

As already mentioned, the offence is to have the phone on your person. Whether it was in use is irrelevant. The Garda will just say that they believe they saw the OP holding their phone and that doesn't make them a liar no matter how much you tell yourself it does!

drunkmonkey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121644178#Comment_121644178

The Garda could have been mistasken, it happens, judges know this. It's definitely not a slam dunk for the prosecution. If there's doubt it's wrong to convict.

Luna84

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121644364#Comment_121644364

I said it already in the thread the OP will just have to learn to sit normal in the car and not rest his head on his hand as this could happen again.

Regarding on the phone or not and challenging it you do know some people would fight it and be adamant they were not on the phone even though they were so you are going up against those kinds of people regarding the judge hearing it all before.

506972617465

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121640803#Comment_121640803

I got my first ticket a couple o years ago. For holding my mobile phone whilst I was "driving" (almost stationary in heavy traffic). I wasn't even talking, I tried to move it from one place in the car to another. Similar procedure to that of yours, licence taken, reg, etc. The ticket and 3 points came in the post a week later.

The Gardai (male+female) also tried to convince me that I am outside of the 5km "permitted zone" (it was during the covid madness) and that they can charge me with "dangerous riving" for some reason. A couple halfwits on a power trip. But I simply WAS within the 5km radius and there was nothing they could do. I informed them that I am prepared to fight it in court and that I will prove that they are wrong, so eventually they dropped the 5km accussation and also did not proceed with "dangerous driving". Sometimes it's just like that, take it on the chin and look for the post. It will come.

GSBellew

Happened to a friend of mine, driving an automatic car, resting their elbow on the armrest and head on their hand, points and a fine, they ended up just paying up, moving on and dropping the habit of resting their head on their hand.

drunkmonkey

Op same as you, " I know I wasn't on the phone but I do sit with my head propped up by my hand (especially in traffic). "

The Garda is mistaken, op should fight it as that's what innocent people with a backbone do. Good solicitor, won't cost to much if you get one already active on the day.

As for the 5k, I wish them the best of luck with that bull crap the next time.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121644364#Comment_121644364

It is quite possible that the Garda is mistaken as we all make mistakes but that still does not make them a liar as has been claimed a coupke of times in this thread.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121644856#Comment_121644856

It has nothing to do with having a backbone. It is down to the liklihood of the judge believing the OP or a garda and the garda presumably has no reason to make up the charge so the OP has to prove that the garda is mistaken (and it is quite likley that, unlike a Hollywood movie, the OP won't get the chance to say anything of substance).

User1998

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121644856#Comment_121644856

Wouldn’t it be almost cheaper to just pay the fine rather than hiring a solicitor and going through all the hassle of court? If you can do it alone it could be worth it but surely the cost savings won’t be much with a solicitor involved