SEAI warmer homes scheme

mosii

Hi, anybody get work done under this scheme .I am wondering has anybody got their heating system replaced as part of the scheme. Thanks.

con747

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058332064/seai-warmer-homes-scheme

A neighbour got a lot of work done under it, full house wrap and new boiler, water tank, controls and other work, vents, attic insulation new oil tank and base and probably other stuff.

mosii

Thank You, Was he a private owner ,or council tenant,?

Masala

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121636788#Comment_121636788

What kinda money he Outlaid and what Grant did he receive. ?

am afraid to look for quotes …. As funds are limited

ColemanY2K

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121637302#Comment_121637302

in the case funds are limited then the new Home Energy Upgrade Loan Scheme the government is rolling out next month may be something to consider.

https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/e48f2-government-and-eib-group-confirm-support-for-new-low-cost-home-energy-upgrade-loan-scheme/

Water John

We were looking to go with the all in one scheme last year, but because of delays by the Dept sanctioning operators at the time we did some individual grants, Heat pump and rads mainly plus insulation. The all in one is the way to go. The only problem is finance up front, but as above poster shows there are loans becoming available at good rates. Really good grants in fairness. Well worth doing.

con747

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121637209#Comment_121637209

They were on disability so all works were free, their own house.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121637302#Comment_121637302

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058332064/seai-warmer-homes-scheme

Having been approved 2 years ago, first inspection completed, Surveyor arrives this Monday. Spoke on the phone & the impression I'm getting is their focus is entirely on insulation.

I've an old oil Boiler but it seems only in exceptional circumstances will a heating system be upgraded.

I'll post about the Surveyors visit on Monday.

con747

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122154920#Comment_122154920

I think if you need external insulation the boiler should be replaced unless it's fairly new, I'm not sure if pumping the walls means it does as well though. One thing to do is keep all communication between the contractor and you so you have a record if anything goes wrong and you said it to them. My neighbour had issues and the whatsapp messages meant they couldn't dispute the fact they were told about them and had to come back a few times to rectify work done substandard. Don't sign off on the work unless you are 100% happy it was done right because if you do you have no recourse. Keep records of everything!

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122154956#Comment_122154956

Morning, and Thank you.

My cottage is unusual in that the existing structure is over 200 years old but has has a large extension added plus an unusual extension, clad in Treated timber.

The modern parts are well insulated but older stone cottage, not at all. The Boiler was 2nd hand & certainly 30 years old, also unusual as it's an internal boiler, with flue going out existing Chimney. Some Radiators are also quite old. My impression, and I may be wrong, is they are reluctant to replace Oil Boilers, instead opting for air to heat pumps, but that would in reality require a full retrofit & I can't see that happening due to costs 🤔

I've a small number of older PVC windows, they'll only be replaced at the same time as external insulation I believe.

It's certainly a challenging house & it will be interesting to see what the Surveyor makes of it.

I'll post an update.

Dempo1

So the SEAI surveyor completed Survey today. Some Takeaways.

A. Parts of my House is Stone Wall with lime render on Outside. They will not put External Insulation over this.

B. The Topic of Replacement Boiler was avoided, essentially SEAI are not Offering heating systems upgrades, despite their literature clearly stating they do. My own oil boiler is over 30 years old & BER Rating done on first inspection clearly recommended upgrading, The BER rating is G, as bad as it gets.

They will do wrap around external insulation on the parts they can, and internal insulation on a Timber clad extension I have, Vents will be installed also.

Attic insulation will also be done.

I'm seeking an explanation as to why my Oil Boiler will not be upgraded, it seems they are avoiding, upgrading any heating systems.

con747

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122161606#Comment_122161606

AFAIK unless the whole house is getting wrapped they won't upgrade the boiler, that's what my neighbour was told when they had their's done. They got the new condensing boiler and hot water cylinder. The extractor fans they fitted were the cheapest Manrose XF150BS you can get. The external cover makes a huge racket in the wind and has no insect guard so watch what they are fitting.

After the attic insulation was fitted they noticed the felt in the attic was getting condensation on it and dripping on the new floor that was fitted by the contractor so make sure they have ventilation for the attic. They put facia air vents on after it was brought up with them. Keep a record of all you are concerned about because you only get one chance at getting it done. My neighbour used Whatsapp to keep a record of all correspondence so they had proof of all issues.

Dempo1

Thank Con.

They are infact not replacing Oil or Gas Boilers at all, nothing to do with the fact my entire cottage is not being wrapped. I've requested a reason why & will update.

Another strange thing. They can not pump beads into a the modern extension part of my cottage & won't wrap that area either. This will result in only half the length of the Back of the house being wrapped which seems Bizzare. The first 2 window were a flat roof extension before I purchased & solid block with no insulation. Again, I'll seek clarification on this.

con747

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122162819#Comment_122162819

I'm not sure if the rules changed but my neighbour got a full house wrap a new condensing boiler, new bonded 650L oil tank and €265.00 of oil included under the warmer homes scheme, the work started last October and the snag list is still being sorted. I think because they are only doing a partial wrap is why the boiler won't be upgraded in your case.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122162849#Comment_122162849

I'm certainly going to Question why, but can assure you, the fact I'm not getting a full wrap around has nothing to do with them not offering a Boiler upgrade. I also noticed on the BER advisory, mention only of Air to Heat systems, no mention of Gas or Oil Boilers & that BER assessment done in July, last year.

con747

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122163223#Comment_122163223

It's still listed on the SEAI website.

"For new heating systems, a contractor will discuss where the new boiler will be located, whether it should be inside or outside, the radiator positions and the oil tank/gas meter position. If the boiler can be located inside, the contractor will need to extend the flue out through the wall. They will need to lift some floorboards to connect the new boiler, radiators and pipework together."

https://www.seai.ie/grants/home-energy-grants/fully-funded-upgrades-for-eligible-homes/

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122163263#Comment_122163263

Yes, Still listed and in their Brochures but as I mentioned, the surveyor said he is not able to recommend Boiler replacements. Wether this is an instruction from HQ, I can't say but that's the distinct impression I got from him. He's taken photos of the Boiler & advised I query this which have now.

Also spotted this on the SEAI website under grants

Buffman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122163833#Comment_122163833

The surveyor should have left you with a SEAI 'brochure' telling you exactly what recommendations are being made? Any mention in that of heating?

Heating is being done on it, I know of a property that got a full new heating system including new gas boiler installed as part of the complete package under this scheme within the last month.

My advice is query directly with SEAI if you've any issues as now is the time to get it sorted, before the contractor is appointed, as they'll only do what's been listed and approved.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122164667#Comment_122164667

Hi There,

Yes left me the Brochure listing what is being recommended , but as explained and I brought it up during the survey, he made it clear, they are not allowed / Permitted to recommend Heating systems upgrades. Whether this is official policy I can not say but its certainly the impression he gave me. He looked at the Boiler, took photos etc and said it was certainly a Museum piece. I have put in a detailed questioner into SEAI seeking explanation. Their own BER advisory, done a year ago recommended an upgrade . Their own literature mentions Oil & Gas Boilers but their site also says no grant funding for upgrading Oil and Gas Boilers.

I will post any update when I receive it

Thank you

unkel

People got a subsidy for installing a new fossil fuel burning boiler that will burn stuff for the next few decades? Dear God help us.

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122170386#Comment_122170386

That's the only practical and sane option if insulation of the property to a point where a heat pump will suffice, is not possible. God save us from eco evangelists who ignore reality.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122170386#Comment_122170386

People got them Free under the warmer home scheme. Efficient condensing Boilers, replacing old, inefficient fuel guzzling Oil & Gas boilers.

Air to Heat systems are not suitable for every home, requiring Insulation & heating systems upgrades. A complete retrofit would required at enormous expense. There's also the cost of running an electric system.

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122170588#Comment_122170588

Rather than spending huge amounts per house money mostly in labour costs and profits for installers (with very little of the money actually going to useful improvements), the government should invest this money in high yield renewable infrastructure. Retrofit is a totally irresponsible and wasteful use of tax payers' money.

And on a micro level, we should not replace fossil fuel burning machines with newer ones that are more efficient and less polluting. This is a fallacy, we have seen it fail completely in cars. It made things worse and caused widespread cheating. The only way forward is everything electric, all of it renewable

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122171319#Comment_122171319

That's all terribly exciting but the fact remains there is an enormous amount of older homes requiring heating systems upgrades & Retrofitting would be prohibitively expensive. Whilst not ideal, replacing an ageing Boiler with an efficient one makes sense. In an ideal world, we'd all love to retrofit but it is just not practical. To retrofit my own 200 year old home would cost in excess of €140k & that ain't happening.

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122171403#Comment_122171403

Yes apologies, maybe I didn't word it right. I agree with all that. Retrofitting simply doesn't make any sense for most houses, they will just have to be naturally be replaced over time. Sure if any home owner wants to go ahead with this with their own money, fair play. But the tax payer should not pay a cent towards it. Or towards any "efficient" boiler upgrades. That said, I am against pretty much any form of subsidies, for anything really.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122171892#Comment_122171892

Homes can't just be replaced over time. It is estimated 500k homes in Ireland require some form of retrofitting or insulation improvements in Ireland . Whilst you may disagree with Taxpayers funding schemes, such as the warmer home scheme, what is the Alternative 🤔 these schemes have very strict eligibility criteria & aimed at those who couldn't possibly afford to upgrade their homes.

Seperately, Local Authorities have a separate scheme where they fully fund, complete retrofitting of their housing stock at no cost to their tenants, They don't just pick & choose what's done, they completely retrofit, including installation of Air to Heat systems.

Ultimately the goals are similar, to reduce use of Energy, wether it be Fossil fuel or Electric & the cost of heating homes, which is surely a good thing in the long run. I can't speak for others but I paid taxes for decades, now retired early due to illness.

slave1

Subsidies are cornerstone of supporting an economy, pre school, free primary and secondary education, heavily subsidised third level education etc, childrens allowance, all that stuff is real and needed

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122173454#Comment_122173454

Nobody is saying the state shouldn't spend general resources on policing, health care, education, etc. LOL, they are not subsidies. What I was referring to was clearly direct subsidies to individuals when they pay a select few private companies to do work for them. This distorts the market and generally just lands the subsidy as an additional profit into those companies' pockets.

Dempo1

Just an update from the SEAI in relation to why stone walls don't get external insulation wrap & heating systems upgrades. I thought it easier to copy & paste the email response as quite technical.

Thanks 👇

I have reviewed the survey completed on your home and in relation to wall insulation, the programme has a strict hierarchy of wall measure approaches which all our contractors follow. There is only one measure carried out per type of wall construction and we refer you to Appendix 1 in this regard. In line with that hierarchy, where a cavity wall exists, WHS will provide cavity wall insulation. If this cavity is filled, we cannot recommend further work.For the sections of wall that are solid stone, all our energy upgrades align with National Standards Authority of Ireland’s (NSAI) Code of Practice for Retrofit SR 54 (2014), which you can read at nsai.ie. SR 54 does not support external insulation of stone walls. Until we are confident that we will not damage the integrity of a stone wall, the programme will not upgrade them. The programme only replaces a heating system where recent statutory building regulations necessitate system replacement if the home's surface area is to be insulated by 25% or over. These scenarios do not apply to your home. We understand you will be disappointed in this news, but SEAI Warmer Homes works within tight parameters and resources delivering energy upgrades to 6,000 homes per year. Our commitment to reducing fuel poverty means we must align with strict scheme rules in order to maintain that commitment.   
 

Roberto_gas

I am getting windows done and boiler done separately. Whats best time to get a BER reassessment done? Assume once both are finished.

con747

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122249389#Comment_122249389

All I can say about that is what my neighbour had done. In 2011 they had half the house which is half solid concrete on the front half and an extension of cavity block pumped with insulation under the first scheme and in 2022 they reapplied for additional work under the new scheme.

They then had more insulation pumped into the cavity half and then a full external wrap which meant they qualified for the upgraded boiler and other work. The contractor said it would be touch and go if he could get away with a full wrap and said it could end up being half the external walls being wrapped but he managed to get a full wrap.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122251401#Comment_122251401

There appears to be many contradictions, and I'm happy to get what's being offered albeit it seems silly to only half insulate a house & not consider a heating system upgrade.

con747

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122251476#Comment_122251476

Maybe try have a good chat with the contractor, it was them who managed to get my neighbours wrapped which meant the boiler could be done. They might have bent the rules a little but it worked out.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122251483#Comment_122251483

My understanding is the contractor appointed has no discretion. I'll make a few more enquiries but I believe it's down to them being told, no Boiler upgrades, Oil or Gas

graememk

Stone walls are their own thing, there's no universal way to bind something to them.

Also if it's stone it's likely lime mortar and and wrapping them could cause more harm than good.

They can be dry lined on the inside but it's slow tedious work. Not as simple of drill hole and hammer a pin in.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122252133#Comment_122252133

Oddly enough, the stone walls are exposed on the inside, I made a feature out of them. I'd have thought, Breathtaking wouldn't be a issue, but I was wrong

arwsligo

Hi All,

I was wondering if anyone has had single glazed doors replaced. We are expecting our surveyfor the scheme. The most recent BER recommendations are around upgrading the three doors which are single glazed with secondary weather glazing. The front door is teak but warped badly and we have a single glazed 1970s aluminium sliding door with secondary storm glazing. The are both incredibly drafty despite remedial draft proofing etc.

Any advice helpful. The walls were pumped we think in the past so it's unlikely they will do much with those.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122453841#Comment_122453841

My understanding is they'll only replace windows if doing external insulation, both done at the same time. Doors maybe replaced.

I'd not take any heed of the BER recommendations, I say this based on my experience, essentially it was ignored by the Surveyor & every effort is made to penny pinch. In my case a heating system upgrade advised but they are not doing Oil /Gas boiler upgrades.

As it happens, the contractor appointed for my upgrades arrives tomorrow to check everything in advance of works commencing soon.

arwsligo

Thanks for this it's super helpful. I figured that it would be a penny pinching exercise. Will see what news the survey brings.

Buffman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122453841#Comment_122453841

They don't do doors at all and windows only get done if you're suitable for insulation and the existing are only single glazed.

Dempo1

My Retrofit on the WHS has commenced. This room is an extension, cladded in Timber outside, so it's been insulated inside. It will include a vent.

The exterior starts soon, awaiting ESB to unclip cables.

I've included one image to give a sense of the thickness of the insulation.

MicktheMan

@Dempo1, what are you doing with that timber panel ceiling?

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122556184#Comment_122556184

Morning, that remains, I moved to lights & replaced with one, hence the area not stained. I'll likely just paint one uniform color. There was no need to insulate ceiling, already well insulated.

MicktheMan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122557559#Comment_122557559

It may well be well insulated. Evenso, the reason I asked is because I find these types of ceiling finishes (t&g timber panelling) are very rarely airtight resulting in significant heat loss through air leakage.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122564301#Comment_122564301

That Cladding is over plaster board, with generous insulation above that, I'd be surprised if there's any heat loss through it

slave1

50mm insulation, I've done that in most rooms of the house, taped the joins when done, huge difference

MicktheMan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122564498#Comment_122564498

Okay, good. A lot of the time these types of ceilings don't have the pb backing and therefore can leak air (and heat) like a sieve

Eire1996

hi all, I’ve applied for grants from the SEAI. There is other houses in my estate that got external insulation, however Im wondering if they will be able to use external insulation on the front of my house with my porch here? Will that obstruct it? the porch seems to have brick on the base but timber above, also single glaze windows which need to be replaced? I’ve attached a photo of my home below

Any comments is appreciated

IMG_2468.jpeg

DC999

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122873713#Comment_122873713

My folks just got it on the grant. Surveyor comes and walks you through what they can do. And explains if parts can't be done AFAIK. My folks have a standard 3 bed semi so didn't have any unusual shapes.

It's very slow.from application to installation unfortunately

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122873713#Comment_122873713

Yes is the Answer, My Retrofit just completed. I would however point out you are loosing a lot of heat out of those large windows.

My porch very tricky, it was built in the 70's but they wouldn't insulate existing cottage as it's stone wall construction.

Some before and after images.

The rear of my house, modern construction insulated externally & my sitting room, internally as cladded in timber out side