Room to Improve - Grants 😱

kevgaa

Hi Folks,

is it just me but I’m always astounded at the grants all these clients seem to get. Tonight for instance was 99k of grants.

70k Derelict property. based on the initial walkthrough of the house not sure how they got that??

Then 29k of SEAI grants. That’s one I would love to see the makeup of. Can you get 29k in individual grants or are they working with a one stop shop?

regards

kev

harr

It’s the vacant home grant that gets me , that house tonight was clearly being lived in .. and the roof was condemned apparently just to push for the grant .. a lot of bending of the rules it seems

Dr.Tom

Meanwhile in non TV land the rest of us spend months awaiting replies from our local responsible grant agency.

Francis McM

It makes my blood boil. The house was crearly being lived in, with the electricity, family photos, kids toys, whiche jacket on back of door etc. It is fair enough if they want to give it energy upgrade grants etc.

There was a lot of money involved. 70k in the vacant property grant and derelict grants alone? That takes the rest of us 140k to earn. Giving these people so much money is not fair on the rest of us.

In other councils you have to provide, among other things, 2 years esb bills to show the house was vacant etc. The house @ 303 k they bough was perfectly liveable in an fine, it had central heating, fuel beside the fireplace etc. There were and are a lot worse houses in the country before Dermot arrived at all.

sydthebeat

I didn't watch it, but was there not a mention that HAP was applied, and maybe that was included in that 99k figure?

Saulgudman

Last week's farmhouse also got the grants when clearly building works had commenced before grant was approved.

Sono

It is not their fault the grant was allowed, they have clearly applied and it has been deemed suitable for the grants, jail.....brilliant :)

NIMAN

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121617629#Comment_121617629

From what I seen in the latest episode, the owners have to provide the money upfront themselves to pay for work to be done, and then claim the grants back later?

Maybe I picked it up wrong?

I remember the QS asking them if they have any means to fund the 99k as the grant wasn't getting paid upfront.

Francis McM

For the "Vacant Property Refurbishment Grant", it is a condition that the property must have been vacant for 2 years or more.

For the derelict grant you can get up to €70,000 to restore a derelict property.

Nothing derelict about the house when it was advertised in 2022

https://www.maherauctioneers.ie/la-palomera-cashel-co-tipperary.html

As someone else said " It was pretty obvious that they were still living in the house. All their belongings were still there - even photos. No way they would leave photos to get damp in an unlived in house. The nonsense of them moving in with the sister before they had even discussed plans was for TV."

They had family photos, toys, bale of briquettes, clothes, bath shampoos , flowers , electricity etc around the house, it looked lived in and do neighbours not say it was lived in within the 2 years / should not have qualified for the grants?

Dermot Bannon said last night, as the bulldozer was knock a 3m high section off the end wall off the perfectly good house, that it was practically a new build (or words to that effect)and the Quantity Surveyor Claire said " "Its essentially a brand-new build here for €1972 per sq.m "

Is giving well heeled couples who can afford 600k or 700,000 for a property almost €100,000 of taxpayers moneys in grant for renovation of derelict property not really taking the piss / a good use of taxpayers funds?

NSAman

That house was not derelict. Yes it was cold but derelict ?

Did I also hear that the builder funded the project until the grants came through? During the conversation about having €120k to pay now?

something wrong with all of this IMHO!

Col_30

Yes, the builder effectively game them an interest free loan. Would this ever happen in reality, I doubt it.

They couldn't afford the house they wanted, so were advised by "professionals" who know how to fiddle the grants system to give them more money.

It's an absolute JOKE!

gipi

Article in today's Indo about Dermot meeting with Dept of Housing to get the info on grants.

NIMAN

I wouldn't be rushing off to report them, but perhaps the system would need an investigation if money isn't being allocated properly, or some folk have to jump through hoops whilst others don't.

In the end, it was a nice house but not worth 600k or 700k.

I do think these types of shows are full of folk who are spending beyond their means. Even those with good jobs. And they are not helped by DB either. He can't spend enough money, and I feel pressurises those on the show to spend money they haven't got. Based on the show, I wouldn't employ him as you'd need to allocate an extra 30-50% on top of your budget.

Has any build ever come in on budget on that show?

muffler

Seriously folks? Do you actually believe that a national broadcaster would broadcast a situation where fraud is evident? Seems like sour grapes going by some of the posts here. Maybe your time would be put to better use by reading the applicable information on the application for, processing of and payment of said grants.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121618737#Comment_121618737

thats pretty much the singular reason dont not watch this programme (beyond the first season)

its completely unrealistic as to the process for the vast majority of clients.

DOCARCH

Mod Note: Accusations of fraud and talk of jail time, without concrete evidence/proof, could be libelous. I have edited posts accordingly.

Sono

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121619078#Comment_121619078

Spot on, total sour grapes.

billy_beckham

I agree with pretty much everything that has been said, it's absolutely a joke. And builder giving them the loan was the cherry on top.

It's not real world stuff at all. How they got 100k of grants is stretching credulity to say the least!!

Dr.Tom

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121619078#Comment_121619078

So please enlighten us on the grant application. There was proof this house was for sale in 2022, and looked lived in, on this thread earlier prior to being deleted.

Proving that dwelling was "derelict" was a severe sleight of hand by someone.

By the way I have a grant application in and am meeting nothing but roadblocks due to incompetency.

thomas 123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121619078#Comment_121619078

Your post shows a lack of understanding of the grant Muffler.

To qualify for the Vacant Property Refurbishment Grant, you must meet the following criteria:

• The property must have been vacant for 2 years or more. You will not qualify if the property has been left unreasonably or purposely vacant so you can get the grant.
• The property must have been built before 2008. (Before 1 May 2023, only homes built before 1993 qualified.)
• You must own the property or be in the process of buying it.
• You must live in the property as your principal private residence when the work is completed, or make it available for rent. If you are going to rent the property when the work is done, you must register the tenancy with the Residential Tenancies Board.
• You must have tax clearance from Revenue and your tax affairs must be in order.
• You must have paid your Local Property Tax, if applicable.
• You must not be a registered company or developer.

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/housing-grants-and-schemes/local-authority-housing-grants-and-supports/vacant-property-refurbishment-grant/

This is the Government one:

https://www.gov.ie/en/service/f8f1b-vacant-property-refurbishment-grant/

(Note the citizens information one includes information only shown on the application form)

Furthermore per https://www.gov.ie/pdf/?file=https://assets.gov.ie/256936/bf727a33-a830-4b09-8917-aaf4e324a886.pdf#page=null :

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121618672#Comment_121618672

If he read the government information in the beginning, he would have discovered to get the vacant property refurbishment grant, you must confirm that the property is derelict. This means that the property is structurally unsound and dangerous.

https://www.gov.ie/en/service/f8f1b-vacant-property-refurbishment-grant/

There was noting derelict about this property, which only changed hands in 2022 :

https://www.maherauctioneers.ie/la-palomera-cashel-co-tipperary.html

And if the new owners were living in it, as most people think ( we saw family photos, toys, clothes, bale of briquettes, flowers, shampoos, electricity etc there last night ) ....they certainly should not have got the vacant property grant. Look at the listing. If it was derelict then more than half the houses in the country are derelict.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121617410#Comment_121617410

It was a disgrace and the minister should be hauled over the hot coals for it.

thomas 123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121619250#Comment_121619250

You'd wonder is it to paint a picture that owning a home is within reach with all the help and supports so easily attained.

sydthebeat

has no one phoned joe yet?

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121619078#Comment_121619078

Yes, a national broadcaster could have the wool pulled over it's eyes.

Gusser09

I'd imagine based on the info available that this case will come in for scrutiny. The house was clearly habitable and had been lived in. The criteria for the grant is clear cut and this house doesn't meet it.

SteelyDanJalapeno

Vacant and derelict mean 2 very different things, our house was built in 2000 and practically vacant for 20 years, but was no means derelict when we bought it

Cuddlesworth

The house in 2022 looks like a old persons house. Its very possible that it wasn't "lived" in for over 2 years but looked after. My partners grandmothers house was the same, not lived in for 3 years but looked perfect when sold because she was in a home. I'd imagine that a lot of the Fair deal houses are the same.

And the above doesn't say you can't move in and apply for the grant due to the fact it was vacant. Seems like they bought the house, moved in, applied for the vacant home grant because it was vacant for over 2 years and took advantage of a loophole.

thomas 123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121619287#Comment_121619287

I dunno, looks pretty lived in to me.

The purpose of this grant is not to improve the living conditions of the well to do - its to bring property otherwise unsuitable for habitation back into the housing stock.

The more I read on this the more of a P*ss take it seems to be.

Deeec

Look fair play if they got the grants - I wouldn't taking it back off them or alleging fraud.

But there are lots of people all over the country that SHOULD NOW QUALIFY for the same grants based on last night's show. I know several couples who bought genuine derelict, vacant properties and are struggling to qualify so questions do need to be asked about how these schemes are managed.

FrancieBrady

Having seen one of these RtI projects carried out locally I suspend my disbelief about the financials even more as they bore no relation to reality.

They create 'drama' around the money for entertainment purposes. Even Grand Designs did too I reckon as every project seemed to have a big drama around money.

User567363

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121619166#Comment_121619166

I am self emplyed and cant afford to pay into a pension, then the tax man comes looking for €20,000 of me every year,

to sit watch strangers getting €100,000 discount on doing up a house from the same tax man is very upsetting

If you dont mind paying for others will you pay my tax bill this year please?

thomas 123

How was this painted in the show?

Did Dermot and the QS apply for the grant with them or had it been done and they already had it? Possible it was done for dramatics - this would be the only way they could be living in thee house that I can see.

csirl

It's a 'reality tv" show. So you have to take everything with a pinch of salt. Not much reality in many of this genre of show.

Gusser09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121619383#Comment_121619383

I must of missed that in the qualifying criteria for the grant.

lmk123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121619287#Comment_121619287

I’d say you’re dead right, people just love controversy. What they got for €650k in the end was a disgrace anyway. Anybody that would even consider asking Dermot B to do anything for them would need their head tested.

Gusser09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121619527#Comment_121619527

I'd imagine the final price was loaded because of the grant. That's what a lot of builders do.

mickdw

The house could genuinely qualify for the vacant house grant if they applied while buying or just after buying when it could be proven empty for 2 years. They are then allowed to move in once approved. It could also legit get the seai funding. In my opinion, that tends to be of limited advantage if using a one stop shop as pricing is just nuts.

There is no way that house should qualify for the extra derelict funding. No way whatsoever and to be honest, I doubt it did get that funding.

kevgaa

While I opened this can of worms, we have to remember we are looking at a highly edit TV series that was shot over a year and the reality is we dont have a clue what went on in, when the house was vacant etc..

On the same note 28K in SEAI grants is huge. I'm looking at what I can get and its nowhere near 28K unless I use a one stop shop and its very hard to get a one stop shop to work with a contractor and the One Stop Shop Tax sometimes doesn't make the option viable. Anyone any experience of this?

mickdw

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121619773#Comment_121619773

One stop shop is a joke. Closed shop would be a better term..... a few approved contractors charging what they like with little gain in the end for the homeowner.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121619773#Comment_121619773

Thing is, we do have a clue what went on. The neighbours also know when the house was occupied / mot occupied. We know it was not derelict.

Who can the matter be reported to though, for investigation and possible repayment of the money? If it was "essentially a new build", as the design team said (their words, not mine), they should not have got a grant towards refurbishment of a derelict and vacant building?

Wanderer2010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121619178#Comment_121619178

The whole show is not real life. Dermot Bannon doesnt have a clue about whats going on with the housing crisis. 14k people living in hotel rooms and hostels up and down the country and they switch on the tv sunday night to see some fellow catering to the top 1% of the population by swanning around some mansion in Wicklow with their grand piano and spiral staircases...give me a break!

He never does working class areas or ordinary singles/couples. Totally detached from reality.

gmisk

The figures for grants were bonkers alright. Is there any other country that is so generous with them? My sister who lives in northern Ireland watched it and couldn't believe all the grants that existed, guessing NI very few.

gmisk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121619527#Comment_121619527

I think people possibly want to get in the quantity surveyor lady more so, I would anyway straight shooter.

muffler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121619988#Comment_121619988

Such matters can be reported to the Gardai. Let us know how you get on.

monseiur

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121619078#Comment_121619078

Seriously muffler do you actually believe that the chief bottle washer in a national broadcaster would be in cahoots with some of it's top broadcasters & their agents to defraud us the taxpayer/ licence payer ? NO NO NO not at all, sure butter wouldn't melt in their mouths 🤣🤣

IsaacWunder

it was on the front page of yesterday’s Sunday Independent. In short, Bannon and Claire Irwin received a private briefing from the Housing Minister Darragh O’Brien’s department in September 2022 about the vacant homes grant before Darragh O’Brien announced an expansion of the grant’s eligibility. The department denied giving advance knowledge of this expansion to the show’s producers or striking a deal for grant promotion. Despite this, the Sunday Independent noted the department and the minister heavily promoted the episode for featuring the grants.

The department acknowledged Bannon’s personal acquaintance with Minister O’Brien, who are similar ages and grew up in the same housing estate, but they clarified there was no direct contact regarding this matter. RTÉ however confirmed that Bannon and Irwin did meet with the department to understand the grant mechanism. Kilkenny County Council’s vacant homes team also informed the Department of Housing about the grant being featured on the show.

The show demonstrated the grant’s impact, with Bannon expressing hope for expanded eligibility, which (no surprises for guessing) occurred, and the eligibility criteria was broadened during the filming period to allow for coverage for homes in remote rural areas from November 2022. The department insisted that the decision to expand the grant predated their contact with the show’s producers and denied any lobbying by Bannon or Irwin for changes in the grant.

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121620455#Comment_121620455

Curiouser and curiouser, seems that the grants are easy to come by once you take part in a show promoting them.

That house was neither vacant or derelict.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121620544#Comment_121620544

Agreed. It is Ireland, it is not what you know, it is who you know. I think the general consensus is that the house was neither vacant or derelict, and should not have got a huge grant for the Refurbishment of Vacant and Derelict property. Even the Q.S. bragged (and was in agreement with Dermot Bannon) it was "essentially a new build". (her words not mine).

Why is it in many parts of the country it is impossible to do what Dermot did and get the grant? The person in the council elsewhere in the country said you were not allowed demolish as much as Dermot demolished on his show. Seems to be who you know, or what? Or if you work in the council as well? - I know of one person in the council elsewhere in the country who knocked most of a cottage but is keeping one wall, and it is suspected by some that he is getting every grant going for the new modern house he is building on the site of the old cottage.

The clients in the last two Room to Improve shows were teachers. Had the decision maker in the Council (in charge of grants) kids in that teacher's school class or go to school with the client or be in the same sports club or what?

yourdeadwright

Its quite obvious Dermot and builders are advising people how to fiddle the system ,

They will happy do the job on tick because the grant money is going straight into there back pocket ,

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121622635#Comment_121622635

Or they are telling porkies about how the job was financed and creating drama as we await to see if grants or bank loans are approved...'knife edge stuff' on all these house programmes. It's a guaranteed stock feature of these programmes. Personally I think there is plenty of money for most of these projects.