Secondary Heat Options

Clo-Clo

Looking for some advice, have a large bungalow which of course is nightmare to heat. Have high insulation etc but still expensive

I have an oil boiler at present, not air tight so don't want to go down a heat pump plus I doubt windows/doors up to standard for grant.

At the moment I have a large solid fuel stove also connected to heating, this was installed before i bought house, I had sticks etc after renovations so I kept but now running out. Don't really want to keep sticks/coal anymore so wondering what option is any to replace it? any options available or should I look at hybrid Heat pump/oil boiler?

MicktheMan

Can you elaborate a bit please on the 'nightmare to heat'?

Heat in = Heat out; The bigger the heat loss the harder it will be to supply the needed energy to be comfortable.

Rather than looking at the LHS (heat input), perhaps there are easy wins on the heat loss side of the equation.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121611155#Comment_121611155

It’s - 3,000sqft bungalow so it’s spread out with lots of windows and doors etc, I have it up to a B2 rating which isn’t and for a 1980 bungalow, the windows could possible be upgraded but they are double glazed etc

Everythung else has been done to it in terms of insulation but not air tight

MicktheMan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121612162#Comment_121612162

Everythung else has been done to it in terms of insulation but not air tight

Given our climate, why not tackle the air tightness (and ventilation of course)

As someone who lives in a now near passive 1970's big spread out bungalow, the biggest bang for buck, hands down, was addressing the air tightness and ventilation. Made a massive difference.

Sonic the Shaghog

I suppose when you say highly insulated, what exactly do you mean? Attic done, walls pumped? Any flat roofs?

Perhaps some thermal curtains? I know a few who have added a thermal curtain inside their exterior doors they pull as well meant keep the heat in, even with double glazed or higher doors

For a B2 nightmare to heat is kinda open ended like what's your consumption fuel wise?

Sonic the Shaghog

Mick might I ask what did you get done?

I've a bungalow myself, I'd say third is original stone and the rest block from extensions over the years up to 1990

Recently rereroofed the entire unit into one, the worst being a flat roof I ripped off and tied into the main roof.

The original part I just installed new double glazed windows and doors has made a difference already. I'd nearly say the stone is warmer than the newer block side.

They never insulted the place so attic insulation and pump the the block parts of the house is my next move to keep me going.

I think depending on prices and funds I'll try and wrap the one stone gable end and the stone back part, eventually.

What other bits did you do if you don't mind me asking?

MicktheMan

What other bits did you do if you don't mind me asking?

The initial thing I did was to understand the top 3 or 4 heat loss mechanisms and address each one properly. I am in the business of testing for heat loss, so to a certain extent I had a head start :).

In my case the attic had been insulated and the cavities pumped by the previous owner but yet the house would barely heat up with the ofch on 24/7. This fact highlights the, imo, over emphasis by the powers that be and the industry in general on insulation in our generally mild but windy climate yet paying lip service to good airtightness and effective ventilation.

I did my heat loss testing and the following were the main culprits:

1. Lack of air tightness
2. Ventilation deficiency
3. Thermal Bridging

The first 2 of these could be easily addressed and by doing so it changed the house completely from a cold damp hard to heat house to a warm, dry easy to keep comfortably warm house.

I won't say what the airtight issues were because all houses are different in this respect and it could easily send you or someone else reading this down a wrong path. I will say though that they were relatively easily sorted especially when the measures were included in other general internal remodelling / building work we did.

My advise to anyone who wants to take a targeted approach to significant heat loss reduction is to first have the house properly assessed / tested for what is going on and shown how to address what weaknesses are found while at the same time ensuring good indoor air quality.

Finally, the BER assessment is NOT a heat loss assessment.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121612224#Comment_121612224

Cavity done, attic done, 50-60% done with insulated slabs and new floor with insulation.

Thermal curtain, never heard of them so will look

Consumption wise is 4 oil tanks a year, tank is 1200ltr. Then we have stove and pellet stove

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121612206#Comment_121612206

I suppose I wouldn't know how to start now with air tightness. We didn't do it when I renovated but a recent room I done up I did it.

MicktheMan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121612793#Comment_121612793

I suppose I wouldn't know how to start now with air tightness.

Not being smart here but having the house tested for air tightness and weaknesses highlighted would be a good start.

ongarite

4 tanks of oil a year isn't bad IMO. Your house is over 2.5x the average Irish home so will never be cheap to heat.

MicktheMan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121612970#Comment_121612970

I'm not sure I would agree. I live in a 2300 sqft 1970's bungalow I use 8 to 900 litres of oil per year for heating and I keep my house between 19 and 21 degC 24/7. No other fuel source used for secondary heating too.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121612942#Comment_121612942

Well as I didn't know to do that then I guess that's the starting point :-)

zg3409

Is your existing oil boiler a condensing boiler, as in does it give out white smoke (steam) and does it have a water drain pipe? If it's the older non condensing type then you might save 10-20% on changing the boiler to a new model.

Is your heating controls zoned for bedrooms non bedrooms and do you have thermostatic valves or thermostats so you can heat the rooms you use daytime to correct temperature and not heat bedrooms during the day etc? Can you easily turn off heating when out and set heating to come on before you get home etc? Controls for time and temperature and zones are important for savings especially if you use them right.

Can you get mains gas where you live? I am not sure on pricing now but might be an option, it was cheaper than oil to heat houses.

Heat pumps tend to cost more to run than gas or oil on older houses. You need to be very very well insulated and ideally underfloor heating and leave heating on 24/7/365 to get maximum efficiency. They are not for all. Electricity prices are still very high.

Ideally get in an expert to give advice. There are grants for some things and bang for buck usually attic insulation is best.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121614184#Comment_121614184

Condenser boiler

Installed a smart thermostat system using Drayton Wiser, so I can turn on /off rooms. Only heat certain room etc

No gas, if gas it's a tank into the garden

The option I was looking at, maybe, was a hybrid system. So the heat pump heats water up so far and if house still cold then then oil would kick in to top it up. That came from Grant who the current boiler is.

Other option I was thinking of was a A2A heat pump to heat up halls etc and then have oil for rest but all crazy stuff :-)

Lancashire-lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058331022/secondary-heat-options

In North Ireland smokeless coal price are very cheap compared to England.

I am sure if used a smokeless coal special design for a stove. Which is high in anthracite Duff and replace your old window with triple glazing. Then have thermal blind as well.

I am sure you be nice and warm

Sonic the Shaghog

Actually another one to try is thermal foil behind radiators. Depending on where you read it circa 35% to 50% of the heat is lost through the wall. I installed some for a relative and just did the gfs one in her room here, I'd say the heat belting out is double what it was. Aldi have them and Screwfix.

Woodies are 3 rolls for price of 2 at the moment came to €16 it's 5m x 0.5m per roll

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121615792#Comment_121615792

I was looking at this, it's better price from amazon. Never bit the bullet as felt it might be fools gold

bfclancy2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121616153#Comment_121616153

its not going to save you 35 to 50% as per above

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121617679#Comment_121617679

I wouldn't think so, but every little helps :-)

bfclancy2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121617686#Comment_121617686

Follow what MickTheMan says, the rest is just pub talk, air tightness is your golden goose

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121612793#Comment_121612793

Good Jesus 4 oil tanks per year! We're using around 1600 to 1800 per year max. And I think that's bad.

My main culprit at this point is the attic space minimal insulation. I did insulate it a few years back. But didn't go full hog just topped up what was there reason was alot of electrical work to be done and wanted to install mhrv too. Filling the place with 400mm insulation didn't make logistical sense then as would be trampling it. So going to go back now and crack on with that. Ours is a 79 bungalow. Cavity pumped, 200mm EWI, 5 year Old Double glazing. Various air tightness measures taken as much as possible. I think once I address the attic properly I can get the OFH down under 1200 ltrs per year.

As mick correctly points out, address the loss first and foremost. Alot of its a somewhat black magic as every single house is different. But there's basics there and a survey is number 1 approach. It should show up some really obvious flaws in the houses retention capabilities.

I'm not bothering changing the OFH as it works well right now. Loss and retention was number 1 and number 2 priority for the last 5 years. Nearly there on my plans.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121614477#Comment_121614477

Bought pallets of stove coal from NI this year, first time not to use a local supplier. About half the price. Good enough reason to keep the border!! :)

Lancashire-lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121617912#Comment_121617912

To true I can not under stand. It is cheaper for me to get a pallet of smokeless coal delivery to me in Lancashire from northern Ireland. Than to buy it in England either online or from the local coal man.

Plus in my experience it is better quality.

Even the bags are better quality. In England they are far to thin.