Medical Leave & Disciplinary Process

Dublinandy3

Hi All,

Question if anyone is able to answer. One of my friends has been notified of an investigation at their workplace for potential gross misconduct. I'm not sure if they've been suspended with pay or not during this but I guess it doesn't matter for this question.

The first thing they did was go to the doctors and be signed off with mental health issues that arose as a result of this investigation notice.

He asked me if they can still proceed with the investigation and I guess potential dismissal while he is signed off? He told me his HR department just acknowledged the med cert but said nothing else when he submitted it.

What are people's thoughts here, I believe he was signed off for 4 weeks initially but it wouldn't surprise me if this is extended. Will they just continue regardless, or wait for him to be signed back, or tell him he has to attend anyway, even if signed off?

TIA

Jim2007

Depending on the nature of the investigation, I would not be surprised if they continued with that part. There is nothing stopping them collecting evidence, taking statements from other staff members and so on. Once they have done so, they can then park it until your friend returns to work, when it will be reactivated.

That said, being informed of a serious disciplinary investigation and immediately going on sick leave many not be without consequences. I would not be surprised if they were required to attend the company doctor for confirmation of the medical situation. If the employer has an insurance policy to cover staff sick leave, you can expect that they (insurance company) will want to minimize the amount they are on the hook for.

caviardreams

Likely option here is after a time, they will get referred to company doctor who will assess fitness to work as well as fitness to partake in the investigation which are different things. as Jim says rest of the process will continue on without them and resume when they are back. It won't go away so best to face it and get it over with

Dublinandy3

Thanks both, yeah I did suggest to get it over with. I believe the thinking is he expects to be fired and sick pay is paid so to get a few months extra pay.

Appreciate the answers.

Wanderer2010

The problem with being referred to the company doctor is in the name: company. The doctor wont have an ounce of sympathy or objectiveness as they work directly for the company and are aligned 100% with their goals, so if they want to discredit an employees medical claims in order to sack them, they will absolutely do this.

Ive seen this happen countless times over the years. An employee is getting bullied by a co worker or boss, or stressed from their workload. They are signed off for a number of weeks from their GP but the company wants them gone so they instruct the company doctor to minimise their physical and mental complaints and push them firmly in the direction of returning to work asap, with some false promises of an adapted workplace to add to the pressure. Workers like this are less resilient and vulnerable when stressed, so more likely to push their own needs aside.

I would absolutely bring a witness with you to any meeting with you and take notes of everything the doctor says.If they refuse, go straight to a solicitor for legal advice. Many companies have a witness in the room when doctors meet employees, its an ar*e covering thing in case they are accused of saying or doing something false. So you are entitled to do the same and make sure you are being treated properly and have your medical needs respected. Company doctors are some of the most horrible people you will ever encounter.

Patches oHoulihan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121609762#Comment_121609762

Wow that's some garbage.

Ever hear of the Hippocratic Oath?

Or maybe the workers GP hasn't.

Here's what we can see from the OP.

Worker allegedly does something bad.

Gets notified of investigation.

Dives for GP mental health cover story.

Worker believes he's getting sacked so obviously must himself believe he did something bad.

Looks to me like the Worker is trying to hide behind a GP note. He can't do it for ever.

The Worker should just face the music after his little con manages to steal a months wage from his employer

But yeah it's the company Doctor who's at fault!! Ffs.

Dr Turk Turkelton

Yeah the employee seems like a real piece of sh1t trying to steal a few months sick pay and trivialising mental health in the process.

lbunnae

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121609780#Comment_121609780

In this example yeah your man is conning the company you are correct. However to let on that company doctors aren’t biased in favour of the company is incredibly naive.

Wanderer2010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121609780#Comment_121609780

The Hippocratic Oath ha ha, are you living in the same country as I am? The health profession in this country is riddled with incompetent and toxic doctors, surgeons and nurses. Some piece of paper wont change that.

Company doctors work for the company, and are aligned and focused on their goals. If one of these goals is to discredit and invalidate the medical conditions of an employee they want gone, then thats what they will do. How long do you think a company doctor would last if they were compassionate to their employees illnesses and recommended adaptations to their workplace/reduced workload/reduced hours etc? All these things cost companies time and money. If you are naive enough to think a company doctor will be anything other than totally loyal to the company, i feel sorry for you.

Patches oHoulihan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121609822#Comment_121609822

I don't really give a **** about where company Doctor loyalty is

Who's the con in the OP?

Your rant is against company Doctors being bent and incompetent which is a sweeping generalisation and small minded to think it's only them.

Would a company doctor not be entitled to a different opinion here when the OP has practically told us the person only developed issues as soon as they nabbed on some misconduct rap. Its the GP that's bent or incompetent here.... clearly.

Narcissistic people look for external factors to blame.

Do yourself a favour Karen and have a day off

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121609780#Comment_121609780

What have you heard about the Hippocratic Oath?

Dublinandy3

Please don't argue people, it's Saturday :)

I'm not trying to defend my friends choices here, like it's been said, they're aimed at getting a few extra months of pay. Not something I'd personally do.

Thanks all!

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121609762#Comment_121609762

Absolute garbage. I have been on the other sided and I never met a doctor who will put is professional reputation on the line for any company.

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121609787#Comment_121609787

Here is the thing, obtaining money by deception, any kind of deception is fraud. And while companies tend to be very flexible and understanding in most cases, they may take a very different attitude in the case of someone who has already committed actions that are about to result in their immediate dismissal.

Decisions are not made by companies, they are made by people and most people do not take it well when they realise they are being taken for fools. So even though I doubt very much there would be no chance of a criminal prosecution is such a case, it does not mean they would not make the complaint just because they know it will cause some hassle for the person involved.

Dial Hard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121609822#Comment_121609822

I've never heard of a company doctor who actually works for the company.

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121609996#Comment_121609996

Off course not, it's just a lot nonsense. The closed I have come to something like that was at the European HQ of a well known US Chemical company where they had a medical centre staffed by three nurses, but no doctor. And that was even closed down while I was there.

Wanderer2010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121609892#Comment_121609892

Nobody on this forum takes anything you say seriously after your stance on holidays on the other thread.

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121610628#Comment_121610628

Doesn’t make him wrong though.

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121609996#Comment_121609996

I was about to say the same thing.

It's usually outsourced to "occupational health" companies.

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121610628#Comment_121610628

Your goose is well and truly cooked at this stage.

LubaDriver

Going on sick leave doesn't give you insurance against being dismissed. In fact you can be dismissed for going on extended sick leave.

So unless your friend works for RTE, playing the mental health card will not help. Probably the opposite tbh.

Wanderer2010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121611037#Comment_121611037

You called all Irish workers entitled and referred to them as Kens and Karens. You admitted you would prioritise families over single people when you select who deserves holidays and you admitted that you hate managing Irish people. You were swiftly torn to shreds by every single person who replied to your quote, who all were disgusted and shocked by your 1940s managerial attitude and your general arrogant attitude.

You never replied. And the reason you never replied is because your cough was well and truly softened.

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121611210#Comment_121611210

Relevance to thread?

lbunnae

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121611210#Comment_121611210

He has gotten things badly wrong re mortgage advice before. Think because he worked in Switzerland he think he’s David Mc Williams.

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058330952/medical-leave-disciplinary-process

He can't seriously think that shouting "mental health" to a doctor is some get out of jail free card that immediately stops everything else that is going on? That they are going to keep paying him while he sits at home with his doctors note?

If that worked then how would anybody ever get fired? Of course they will continue the investigation.

I'll assume by sick pay he means state sick pay, because I doubt very much the company will be paying any.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121609863#Comment_121609863

Who knows, OP’s friend may hardly ever have had need for GP visits before this, so GP may hardly know him. Who knows what the guy said to the GP, likely said little except he was being traumatised at work or something like that. Doctors unfortunately aren’t mind readers and have only got to go on how the patient presents and what they hear from the patient. It’s really only after an observed pattern or holes in the story that they might start to become suspicious.

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121611210#Comment_121611210

Rubbish. A number of other posters noted that considering each employee's family needs is legally required.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121610667#Comment_121610667

Yes indeed I worked for a local authority, they have a contract with an occupational health service. I had to retire on health grounds a couple of years early, got my pension. I consider I was treated very fairly by the doctor.

Unknownability

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121610394#Comment_121610394

There are dozens of companies that have their own medical officers, mainly semi state or large employers.

Squatman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121610628#Comment_121610628

to be honest, in forums like this, I search for Jims responses, as he has a wealth of experience, and objective feedback.