VRT NI car

david

Hi guys - I have purchased a 2019 car with two previous owners from a VW dealership in NI.

I have presented all documents to NCTS outlined on the revenue guidelines and they are refusing to approve registration because the most recent date of change on the V5C is November 2021. The car has a full history and first registration was in Belfast July 2019. Never been registered in GB.

They have requested a ferry ticket, prev tax and insurance documents or an original v5 (destroyed) predating 01/01/2019.

Do I have any case here to avoid Customs/VAT? I can’t see any way I’d get the documents requested due to GDPR legislation. Have no idea who the original owner is to ask them.

It’s clearly an NI car without an age related GB reg

Many thanks for your advice

david

Apologies - typo here, documents requested need to predate 01/01/21 (brexit)

User1998

If it had an MOT before Brexit that would suffice

colm_mcm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121604603#Comment_121604603

2019 car usually wouldn’t need one til 2023.

User1998

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121609131#Comment_121609131

Its due after 3 years in the UK so it would be due in 2022. I was thinking there might be a possibility it was MOT’d early or something

GSBellew

Is the dealer you bought it from the original supplying dealer?

If they are you may be able to get them to supply a letter confirming that the car was first registered in NI on xx/xx/202x

Getting the service history would be my next stop, can you show it was serviced in NI before Brexit?

Curious to see how it goes.

mickdw

Interesting.

This is the danger with buying a perfectly legit NI car...... Proof.

Would history check add anything.... original reg being an NI plate etc.

Let us know how it works out.

david

Ive tracked back the history of the car, supplied full service history, letters from all VW supplying dealers, declaration that the car was collected from Stena compound on 08/07/2019 by a motor freight carrier in Belfast prior to sale (new on registration).

The car has carried two plates, the original one it’s on now which is clearly which is three letter and four digit NI reg, and a private plate which was reverted back by VW garage who supplied it to me.

All of this doesn’t tick any of the boxes outlined by Revenue yet if I have a ferry ticket with my reg on it from pre 2021, they accept that. Madness.

Ive written to minister of finance and the revenue commissioner. Will let you guys know what happens next.

mickdw

If you know all dealers involved, could original dealer contact original owner and ask then if they would be willing to talk to you. If so, they might be able to produce proof of taxing in NI prior to brexit.

drunkmonkey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121609647#Comment_121609647

Are you dealing with frontier management directly?

It took me months to get past them, I'd nothing only a ferry ticket pre brexit and a NI mot from a month before I bought the car. They're website clearly stated a ferry ticket was evidence, they wouldn't accept it though as no proof the car went on the ferry that day or the ferry ticket wasn't a forgery. They really were making up scenarios in their heads to get the customs and vat.

I didn't pay a penny until it was sorted.

Buddy Bubs

What is the formula for calculating UK and NI imports into ROI? I know it's unlikely to throw up any bargains but I'm going to keep an eye out. I'd be looking at 2022 onwards

From what I know

UK car

Sterling price converted to euro

VRT based on revenues valuation

10% Customs based on revenues valuation

ROI VAT 23% based on revenues valuation

Original NI car

Drop the customs and VAT charges

drunkmonkey

Yes that's it.

Some discounts in the electric cars as vrt is very low.

mickdw

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121609760#Comment_121609760

Customs and vat is based on uk invoice Price plus any transport costs.

Car traders can claim back uk vat on vat qualifying cars or can claim 1/6 of uk invoice price from uk revenue on non vat qualifying cars once exported from uk.

Buddy Bubs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121609776#Comment_121609776

It would be electric I'd be looking at

But based on my calculations it's way more expensive compared to buying in ROI, about 15k difference in it.

It's the double VAT that's the killer. Drop the 23% vat and it's preferable to buy in UK even with the customs and the vrt.

I presume it's nearly impossible to get a dealer to sell a car exempt of UK VAT to a private purchaser is it? There isn't a single version of what I'm looking at for sale in northern Ireland at the moment that I can see.

mickdw

Only option us to use a dealer to source in uk. Their cut should be still better than paying double vat.

Sono

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121609808#Comment_121609808

Was thinking this myself reading the thread, absolute disaster trying to have all your ducks in a row doing it on your own.

Best of luck OP I hope you get sorted and keep us posted.

User1998

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121609647#Comment_121609647

What NCT centre are you using? Try a few other ones and you might get lucky with sound staff members.

td2008

Yeah could be worth it. I found kells were fine to deal with. Guy there named Paul iirc

drunkmonkey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121609875#Comment_121609875

From my experience the NCT aren't the issue, they'll submit all the paperwork and then it goes to the revenue for approval. It's not as simple as just having everything correct and they take full payment there and then.

Where the NCT have say is the value. I'd to argue that as well, NCT said car was perfect, I went directly to frontier management and proved it wasn't, got a discount there as well.

I was fined for not paying in time but all that was wiped off when everything else was sorted.

User1998

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121609927#Comment_121609927

In my experience if I ever have trouble in a certain NCT centre with paperwork such as shipping documents or emissions certs I can usually just go 10 minutes down the road to another centre and they will sort it for me as they are less strict.

drunkmonkey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121610004#Comment_121610004

There's no trouble with the paperwork from the NCT centre in these cases, it's when they submit them to the revenue for vat and customs calculations the problem arises. You can't just rock up to another centre and hope to get lucky.

Gusser09

Its an extremely complex formula unfortunately. Its could be simplified.

OP not sure what you can do here. It takes the goodness out of getting a decent spec car for a decent price.

mickdw

At the end of the day, they are not entitled to vat or duty on the ops car so it needs to be escalated to a level that it can be personally reviewed by someone with the power to say its legit.

How you manage to do that with revenue, I don't know. You will probably get the old pay and appeal response and this is what you may have to do.

The appeals at least are reviewed and common sense usually applied but I've not heard of an appeal in these circumstances concerning vat and duty.

david

I’ve received an acknowledgment from the ministers office it’s being reviewed. Thanks for all the well wishes and PMs.

I’m at the stage now where I’m looking at cost to change to import another vehicle with a V5C dated prior to 2021.

It’s a ridiculous scenario that HRMC can’t provide info to Revenue for such a clear cut case. Absolute money gouge. Not a hope in hell I’m paying Vat and import duty in the hope of claiming it back. Matter of principal.

What they are asking is borderline immoral. Asking me to operate outside the lines to locate the original owner and retrieve confidential data.

I’ll keep you all posted. I have 7 days left to register without penalty otherwise it’ll be heading back to the forecourt.

david

The whole experience stinks. The first application rejected my proof of address for being printed black and white and likely not a posted document. They asked for an accompanying printed bank account statement with an address to verify.

I enquired where I could print locally and she advised me to sign up for a library near Tallaght square 2km away, ironically also requiring proof of address. Refused to give me my car keys as it was “undergoing inspection” even though the fella checking the chassis number outside the window had finished and dropped the keys back.

Got the relevant statement printed and returned in less than 5 minutes by asking a favour of a lovely guy in Folens next door. I think this whole scenario turned them sour looking for a reason to decline.

As someone who makes a living in people/customer management, I will never understand why people are unreasonably **** towards others because of issues in their own work/life.

Rant over.

User1998

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121611488#Comment_121611488

You need an original bank statement, otherwise you bring two forms of proof of address. Its clearly stated on the VRT checklist. Nothing sour about it tbh.

Not sure if you read my other posts but I was specifically referring to Greenhills VRT. I can tell now after you mentioned Tallaght and Folens that thats who your dealing with. They are absolute c*nts there, always causing me hassle. I completely avoid Greenhills now because they are so unreasonable.

colm_mcm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121609452#Comment_121609452

That’s vans, cars is 4 years

User1998

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121611968#Comment_121611968

Edit: Apologies, different rules for Northern Ireland than mainland UK?

colm_mcm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121612081#Comment_121612081

Yes, their testing system is different to mainland UK too in that they have test centres rather than using garages

daarmcd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121609760#Comment_121609760

No customs charge if car is made in the UK

Dr Karl

If you are not happy with how the NCTS has dealt with you, you should make a complaint to the Ombudsman. Government Departments, Agencies and private companies like the NCTS who have a government contract will just try to gaslight you.

https://www.ombudsman.ie/

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/mechanic-refused-to-fix-error-after-wrongly-adding-40000km-to-motorists-nct-cert-ombudsman-reveals/a1938710797.html