Common Travel Area - Can we freely move?

ijgoldman

Last year in 2023 I travelled to Holyhead by Irish Ferries from Dublin as an Irish citizen. When the ship docked in Wales we were brought by bus to the passenger terminal arrivals lounge where you collected your bags and had ID checked by the UK border police.

I handed over my Irish passport and expected that to be that, but what I was not expecting was the border agent at the little desk to look up and ask me ‘..and what is the purpose of your visit?’

I have travelled to the UK before and don’t ever remember being asked for a purpose of why I am travelling there. I responded saying I was there on holiday as the agent was nice and didn’t want to cause a scene, but I have to say I was quite shocked to be asked for a purpose as I thought we were supposed to be able to move freely in the Common Travel Area, like it says in the memorandum of understanding signed by the UK and Ireland during Brexit negotiations outlining a commitment by both to maintaining it after the UK left the EU.

I can totally understand ID checks are necessary as this is needed to prove you are a British, Irish, IOM or CI citizen, but I would love to know are border police allowed to press you for an answer as to why you are visiting when you are a common travel area citizen? Are you required to give them an answer?

It’s not that I was offended for being asked for a purpose, I just feel that the point of free unhindered travel is kind of lost if you are going to be expected to give an answer for why you are travelling.

tikka16751

This didn’t happen, that’s some imagination.

wandererz

`I am exercising my right under the CTA"

ELM327

So you can either answer the questions and be on your way, or be the ar$e that "knows his rights", answer like @wandererz suggests above, and provoke more suspicion on yourself and delay yourself further

csirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121565668#Comment_121565668

Interesting take on the situation. Essentially saying the UK authorities are taking advantage of peoples perception that they may be treated poorly if they dont pass over unnecessary information.

kirving

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121564257#Comment_121564257

Not to backseat mod, but this type of response is seen all over boards.ie and it totally ruins discussion.

Maybe....just maybe....the reason the OP has actually posted this is precisely because it is unusual? How can you possibly assert that of the approximately 10,000 UK Border Force personnel, that ONE of them didn't ask the OP this question? It's the most basic question you could ask a traveller.

In any case, I've been asked similar questions multiple times when crossing, but both Irish Customs and UK Border officials. A few times I was travelling on my own as an Irish citizen in a UK reg car, another time with four guys on a road trip, so I/we understandably stand out more than a family on holiday or a truck driver who does the trip every week.

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121565774#Comment_121565774

No. The border police may not be aware of this, and may be going through a script he's said a thousand times that day. Especially if there wasnt a dedicated CTA line vs standard and EU and non Eu lines.

Spook_ie

I was born in England and using UK passport and ( back in or around 2005 ) once when travelling out from the UK I was pulled to one side and asked why I was travelling to Ireland.

It was a simple case they were checking if I had permission to be travelling with the kids and once I called their mother over we were fine.

TBH they could be asking you for any number of reasons

csirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121565920#Comment_121565920

I find that hard to believe considering 90%+ of the people will be UK or Irish residents!

yagan

I wouldn't be confident any UK border post is up to speed on what the rules are.

We were entering Britain from Spain and we were both using our Irish Passport Cards, I got though no problem and person checking me said that the UK should have introduced such a card years ago, even showed it to her colleague in her booth. But my wife who went to the next booth was being held up and asked for her real ID. I was waiting a good 10 min before a supervisor confirmed that the UK accepts our Passport Card.

I reckon they're told ask what they like when they like.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121566906#Comment_121566906

You can refuse but you also need to be cognisant of the fact that they do need to be sure that you are who you are in order for them to understand that you have the rights enshrined under the CTA - its a form of double checking. Being a smart arse or refusing to answer is just adding to their "being a dick" list which gives grunds for them to question you further. In short, they can ask you a few simple questions and this doesn't affect your rights under the CTA.

In a similar manner, I have been stopped whilst in Dublin Airport and also coming off the ferry in Dublin from Cherbourg. I think the ferry occasion was because I always get a dark tan in France and the immigration lad just wanted to check. When he heard the accent (and the Dublin GAA jersey) he smiled and waved me through.

SouthWesterly

While the thread is here. What's the story on an EU citizen travelling to the UK? Do they need a visa if travelling from Ireland?

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121567834#Comment_121567834

Not necessarily for short trips but the rules on them apply regardless of where they arrive from (Ireland or elsewhere in the EU)...

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/visiting-the-uk-as-an-eu-eea-or-swiss-citizen#:~:text=If%20you're%20an%20EU%20%2C%20EEA%20or%20Swiss%20Citizen%20travelling,for%20up%20to%206%20months.

coylemj

It may be the case that they are not entitled to ask you the purpose of your visit but I don't think standing in front of the UK border police is the time to assert your rights. You have to remember that in that situation, you are in no position to be bolshie and awkward because they have all the power and you have virtually none. For example, even if you stand on your rights and refuse to answer a question, they can respond by calling over their friends in HMRC to give your bags (and possibly your person) a good, slow search and ask you lots of customs-related questions. Good luck quoting the CTA to those fellows!

I was pulled over by a few lads in high-vis jackets when about to drive on to the ferry in Holyhead in October last. I had no idea if they were border police or HMRC but we were inside a controlled zone so I knew they were genuine. I could have asserted all sorts of rights and refused to answer some of their questions but what would be the point of that? They were ultra polite and very professional so when they asked me some questions and would it be ok to look in my boot, I was equally polite, answered their questions and was on my way in less than two minutes.

There's a time and a place to assert your rights, doing it while attempting to enter or leave a country is not the time to do it.

dennyk

There's nothing that prohibits the border officials from asking you questions like that, and it's a common tactic for them to suss out travelers who are actually up to no good. You might not be legally obligated to answer in order to enter the country, but if you get all evasive or aggressive with the border official, you can expect to be subjected to additional scrutiny and investigation; even if they can't ultimately prohibit you from entering the country, they can question and search you until they are satisfied of your right to enter the UK, they can search your baggage and belongings for prohibited or restricted items, and they can examine you to establish whether or not you are involved in any terrorism-related activity, so being obstinate when a border official politely asks a routine question about the purpose of your travels is a good way to ensure that you'll have a somewhat less than pleasant time for the next few to several hours.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121567004#Comment_121567004

But passport checks between Ireland and the Schengen area are routine and to be expected.

Flying into Dublin Airport there is no exemption for CTA passengers (or domestic passengers for that matter) from passing though immigration, so passport or other ID or evidence of domestic flight is required.

FWIW I've never been asked for passport or ID when taking an Irish Sea ferry.

yagan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121585321#Comment_121585321

I did notice a few times arriving in Holyhead that cars with passengers with darker skins tones would be pulled over for a chat.

In recent years before the customs border at Dublin port became operational the gardai were checking each car.

Funnily we had an english lad as a passenger so when when we rolled up to the Garda I said "two Irish and this lad is english, will we let him in?" We all had our IDs out so the Garda said something like "he looks harmless, go on so".

The english lad was really freaked out by how casual we were. The key is cooperation.

Hotblack Desiato

..

ohnonotgmail

I dont understand where posters are getting the idea that UK border force are not allowed to ask travelers particular questions.

Marcusm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121587168#Comment_121587168

It’s no so much that they are not allowed to ask so much as once they have identified that the person is a U.K. or Irish citizen, they cannot insist on an answer via a via immigration. If the person is HMRC or police they may ask questions under different codes. However, an Irish citizen is not subject to immigration control on a local journey, ie one between Ireland and the U.K. and cannot be lawfully detained or delayed on immigration grounds once their identity is established. Border Force is generally pretty hot on that point as they too often engage with people trying to force a confrontation. Much easier to give a nod to the Customs officer or police person (money, drugs or, as I was once informed, porn smuggling).

endofrainbow

Asking the purpose of your visit is hardly pressing you.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121593443#Comment_121593443

I know. People going on like they have been waterboarded.

the O Reilly connection

I know from my own personal experience that there isn't that same level of trust between the authorities and citizens in Britain as there is in Ireland. I'll go even further in saying that the Irish are still perceived as a security threat there and they are not afraid to let know that.

Peter Flynt

Have gone through security checks at Holyhead as long ago as 2003. In 1995 I was stopped by a lone policeman and asked a series of questions at Newcastle airport and yet have landed at Heathrow many times with no security checks at all.

Peter Flynt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121593443#Comment_121593443

Ultimately the UK has left the EU and many EU citizens can gain access to the UK via Ireland. So I suspect more checks in the future. Likewise there should be stringent checks on visitors from the UK to Ireland.

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121621743#Comment_121621743

"Stringent checks on visitors from the UK to Ireland" would require a hard border in Ireland — and that's a "no" — or the best you can do is checks on traffic from Great Britain, easily avoided by travelling to Belfast and then crossing the land border.

Pauliedragon

I fly to the UK about twice a year and the only time my passport is checked is when I arrive back in Cork airport. Never in Manchester or any of the London airports (never fly Heathrow so can't comment on there)

CramCycle

Asking the purpose of your visit is not inhibiting your ability to travel within the CTA. It is simply routine police work, might have even just been a nice question as it was quiet and boring but it is not illegal, possibly was just friendly and more likely, just routine to see did any of your reactions indicate you might be worthy of a bag check.

I've been over loads of times on the Ferry. Sometimes it is a full bag and ID check for everyone, sometimes they forget to even ask for IDs.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121621874#Comment_121621874

That's because they separate incoming passengers from UK & Ireland from other passengers who do need passport checks. For whatever reason we don't do that here even in Dublin, everybody has to go through immigration.

yagan

It is a blind spot for the UK to apply random checks at seaports but not flight arrivals from Ireland. Aerlingus I believe accept an Irish drivers license as ID for boarding so there could be lots of third country nationals entering Britain without an appropriate visa and the Brits would never know.

If there was one high profile case of illegal entry from Ireland via plane i reckon that would be the end of no ID checks for us in British airports.

munchkin_utd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121624394#Comment_121624394

Its been asked on the travel fourm (theres an odd person working at the airport there) and the official reason is that blanket ID-checks of people coming from the UK by air pick up people up to no good and the odd potential illegal immigrant, so they will continue doing so.

FFS, if that was the attitude in Europe the Schengen zone wouldnt exist. For a few detections, which could be done by passenger information analysis , they check 10s of millions of passports for no valid reason clogging up the passport check.

Of course too, if someone was entitled to be in the UK but not in Ireland, they can and almost certainly do go via Northern Ireland and then cross the land border.