Irish Rail Mark 4

Happy Christmas all

Could I ask what probably a really thick question, but is it possible to have a Mk 4 with what I believe is called a DVT on each end or must you have a "locomotive" at one end?

It all looks nice and fancy with a streamlined end heading to Dublin, but you have a 201 front heading to Cork which isn't a bit streamlined...

SeanW

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058328290/irish-rail-mark-4

Merry Christmas. Don't worry about your question being "thick" as they say.

The way the Dublin-Cork trains work is that there is a 201 locomotive at one end and a Driving Van Trailer at the other. As you might imagine, the DVT provides a control cab for a drive in "push" mode and also provides power to the coaches to run heat and lights. However, it does not provide any motive power, i.e. it cannot move the train.

The 201 locomotive provides motive power for the train and also a driving cab for when the train is in "pull" mode.

Or, simply put, if you put an MK4 DVT at both ends of the train, it would have lights and heat, but it wouldn't actually go anywhere.

If you wanted the trains to look really nice, it would be necessary to get custom locomotives that look like MK4 DVTs, similar to what British Rail did with their "Intercity 225" programme that paired Class 91 locomotives with MK4 carriage sets.

Fun side fact, the 201 locomotive class is theoretically capable of providing HEP (Head End Power) to the heat and lighting of a train, and it did so with the Dublin-Belfast Enterprise for years, but the 201s weren't really designed to do HEP properly (it worked but at the cost of running the loco engines to the max all the time) so IE brought in MK3 generator vans for the Enterprise when the MK3 sets were scrapped.

The other issue with those is the locomotives are a lot older than the trains. They were just over a decade old when the trains entered service.

It might not be a great idea to buy new locomotives at this point tho. I suspect if the 201s go the MK4 and the existing Enterprise will go too and we’ll see a new fleet ordered.

TheSunIsShining

Is there any sign of fleet being ordered to allow the Cork-Dublin route to go half hourly at peak times?

Citizen Six

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121534830#Comment_121534830

Current Enterprise will be gone before the 201s.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121534912#Comment_121534912

Cork-Dublin and Dublin to Border are covered by EU TEN tec programmes too, so should really be seeing upgrade to electric at some point, if we're taking anything about rail seriously, which we probably aren't.

Citizen Six

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121539314#Comment_121539314

I think there's some kind of tender for a hybrid loco for the Enterprise. With the engine being swapped out for batteries at some stage. Sounds odd.

dowlingm

My recollection from the introduction of the 4s is that the DVTs had the potential of being converted to 125mph power cars* (along with an order for the same quantity of new ones for the other end). But even if were the case, it’s doubtful there was a real commitment to doing it, and the 4s are likely far enough into their lifecycle that it’s not worth it now

* power cars are basically locomotives but geared for high speeds and usually with couplers which are specific to the coaches they haul as opposed to freight cars.

They support 200km/h operation, with a brake modification which is part of the design.

I would assume they'd probably just build two new power cars per set, rather than convert the DVTs, if they were ever doing this.

Or keep the existing DVT and just add a single 200km/h power car that looks very similar to it on the other end.

It's far more likely that by the time they get to upgrading the line to anything approaching high speed they'll just buy a new fleet.

goingnowhere

Mk4 requires a third brake disk assembly to be added for 200kph and then find a locomotive which can get you to 200kph

The Mk3 in theory was 200kph out of the box

Both would likely need ETCS signalling to ensure braking distances would work out, we don't have EP brakes just straight air so 160kph is the limit within existing line side signals