Are Atheists optimists or pessimists?

realitykeeper

One time, I heard a Jewish guy say the before the Nazis turned up the heat in the 1930s, Jewish pessimists went to New York and the optimists ended up going to Auswitch.

As a Christian, I find my faith makes me an optimist but only in the things I control and it may me a pessimist with things I don't control.

My guess is wayward Jews would have been dismissive of impending danger from the Nazi regime as they were probably less religious and less inclined to think things through.

Another trait I associate with people of little faith is they don't see the past in a glass half full way but they see the past in a more negative light and so they favour change that they think will make things better.

Thoughts please.

smacl

An atheist is simply someone who don't believe in a god or gods. This doesn't tell us anything at all about whether they're likely to be an optimist or a pessimist.

sniperman

there is only one god......cash

Akrasia

Atheists don't believe in any god. That's all they have in common

I find it funny that many theists feel that they can unite in opposition to atheism as if Atheism was some kind of coherent ideology, and in fact the atheists tend to agree far more with all theists about all other religions (except for one) , than theists of different faiths agree with each other.

Akrasia

I would like to imagine that atheists are more 'realistic' than Theists in that we don't usually believe in the supernatural, but actually political, scientific (pseudoscience) and economic ideologies can be just as irrational as any supernatural belief

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058328106/are-atheists-optimists-or-pessimists

A lot of religious folks apply this type of black and white thinking. Optimist versus pessimist. Good versus Evil. Right versus left etc.

The only unifying quality I've seen in a lot of atheists I know is a sense of realism and a bit less of this black and white thinking. I think you need it somewhat to break free from religion in a culture where it's the dominant way of thinking.

smacl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121528791#Comment_121528791

Not sure this bears close inspection. E.g. Largest single body of atheists is likely in China where people still tend to be very superstitious. Your point really only relates to those atheists that have rejected theism in a largely theistic society where they consider it irrational.

I.R.Y.E.D

No indicators that would support the argument.

It would be like someone stating without being able to show evidence to support their argument, that some people who claim to be a believer/religious show strong indicators of just using the term as an excuse for being a cúnt or for their mental health issues etc.

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121528814#Comment_121528814

I would imagine the OP and the poster you quoted were referring to atheists in a Western sense alright.

Chinese socilital atheism with people's own personal beliefs (and superstitions) on top of that is a totally different animal imo

smacl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121528845#Comment_121528845

I think they were both referring to different, very specific, subgroups of people who think of themselves as atheists after due consideration. I suspect most atheists don't fall into those categories. Unless you've actively been raised a theist, you're an atheist by default. For most, it's a passive attribute. Either by not being raised a theist or not taking heed of the theist doctrine within your upbringing.

realitykeeper

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121528791#Comment_121528791

Yes. The Communists believed in science and human ingenuity at the outset of the Soviet Union a little over a hundred years ago. They thought along the same lines as contemporary atheists but the Communist experiment was a failure.

realitykeeper

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121528803#Comment_121528803

You mean grey as opposed to black or white? One the one hand, on the other hand type thing? The problem with that is sometimes it is necessary to make a decision.

realitykeeper

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121528814#Comment_121528814

Ireland is not all that religious. It used to be.

realitykeeper

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121528828#Comment_121528828

Could you think about this and have another go at it? What you said wasn't very coherent.

realitykeeper

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121531063#Comment_121531063

Pope John Paul 2 said that when people ask fundamental questions about existential subjects, they are asking about God without realising it.

I find that when I speak to Atheists they sometimes throw a lot of these questions at me and I tell them we don't have all the answers. We will never have all the answers and I thank God for that. Wouldn't life be terrible without some mystery left in it.

realitykeeper

Happy Christmas everyone!!!!!

I.R.Y.E.D

Don't tend to login on a Sunday given the day that it is and given the time of year even longer away.

Post is fairly clear imo, what part are you having difficulty comprehending

realitykeeper

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121544701#Comment_121544701

Does anyone know what this person is talking about?

I.R.Y.E.D

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121545205#Comment_121545205

You asked me to clarify my earlier post last Sunday, I simply mentioned that I don't tend to login here on a Sunday and the Christmas period meant I was away even longer and what part of my original post that you are having difficulty comprehending so I can try and clarify it for you.

smacl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121533425#Comment_121533425

As someone who tries to think rationally, when I don't have the answer to a claimed truth, I look for objective evidence that supports that claim and negative evidence that refutes it. If there is none, I look for evidence of bias. E.g. does convincing other people that the claim is true confer advantage to those making the claim. In the case of existence of a god or gods, there is no objective evidence. Belief is entirely faith based. There is however strong evidence of bias. Churches have held (and often abused) major political and military power throughout history. They continue to do so. The combination of this, in conjunction with lack of any objective evidence, leads me to believe the gods purported to exist by major religions are fabricated as a mechanism to gain social power.

Nobody has all the answers but this doesn't mean we should blindly accept what appear to be wildly bizarre claims as the basis for living our entire lives.

Hope this makes sense.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121528750#Comment_121528750

yes, but...

whether you believe in a god or not will quite often affect your outlook on life (citation required).

therefore it's likely that atheists (averaged out) will have a different outlook to believers. however, whether it's atheists or believers who differ from a baseline is a matter of perspective, i suspect.

HalloweenJack

@realitykeeper You seem to contradict yourself in two different posts.

In the first one, you say:

"My guess is wayward Jews would have been dismissive of impending danger from the Nazi regime as they were probably less religious and less inclined to think things through."

Despite ignoring the fact that it wouldn't have been as easy for oppressed people to just up and leave as they wished, you seem to draw a line between people being less religious and less inclined to think about things.

In the same post, you also suggest people of 'little faith' favour change that might make things better yet that doesn't align with your idea that the less religious Jews didn't do anything and just accepted things as they were under the Nazis.

Later, you say:

"I find that when I speak to Atheists they sometimes throw a lot of these questions at me and I tell them we don't have all the answers. We will never have all the answers and I thank God for that. Wouldn't life be terrible without some mystery left in it."

Here, you describe atheists as inquisitive and you 'thank God' that there's 'some mystery' in life. So are you yourself the one not contemplating things, something you suggested led to 'wayward' Jews ending up in Auschwitz?

Your argument is an incoherent mess, though I doubt you're being entirely sincere.

realitykeeper

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121545246#Comment_121545246

But don't ya know to reply when you feel like it? That's what everyone else does. Next you'll be giving me your bathroom routine. I don't need to know about your bowel movements.

realitykeeper

Faith requires the absence of evidence. It is pointless to look for proof of God. Humanity was never ment to discover evidence of God which is why it won't, at least not in this life.

realitykeeper

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121546707#Comment_121546707

You sound like a ball of confusion. A lost child and a fuzzy headed one at that.

Aspiring for something better is different to anticipating something worse.

Also, appreciating mystery is not a bar to exploration or the pursuit of answers. But there will always be more to discover, humanity will never know everything.

swampgas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121547852#Comment_121547852

Faith is, IMO, just wishful thinking. How can you "know" that it is pointless to look for proof of God? Or "know" that humanity was never meant to discover evidence of God? You have decided that these things are "just true", because your gut instinct tells you so. Faith is deciding to believe something - usually something you want to be true - and dressing up your acceptance of lack of evidence as something positive.

I (once) believed in God, but once I figured out how "faith" meant I was simply deceiving myself, faith became just another error in my thinking, due to indoctrination as a child, that I was able to move past.

I.R.Y.E.D

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121547836#Comment_121547836

OK most people can follow a conversation without a direct quote, sorry if this isn't the case here

So what part of mu original post, I'll repeat it below are you having difficulty comprehending?

No indicators that would support the argument.

It would be like someone stating without being able to show evidence to support their argument, that some people who claim to be a believer/religious show strong indicators of just using the term as an excuse for being a cúnt or for their mental health issues etc.

realitykeeper

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121547994#Comment_121547994

Faith is not about knowing. It is about believing and it is entirely logical. Christopher Columbus did not know it would be possible to find a westward route to the Orient but he believed it and he was right even though he never found it.

realitykeeper

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121548194#Comment_121548194

You are ranting.

I.R.Y.E.D

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121548512#Comment_121548512

That isn't very Christian now is it, more like projection

swampgas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121548507#Comment_121548507

He made an educated guess and was partly right, and partly wrong. He didn't know America existed, but he knew the world was round and suspected that by going far enough west he would come back around to the east. Perhaps you can see that sailing across the Atlantic to test a hypothesis is more science than blind faith. If Columbus were you he would never have gone to sea, and instead just pontificated on the existence a path to India by sailing off over horizon ...