URC Round 8: Munster vs. Leinster - 26/12/2023

Munster v Leinster

Thomond Park, Limerick – KO 19.35 IRE & UK / 20.35 ITA / 21.35 SA

Referee: Andrew Brace (IRFU, 91st league game)

AR 1: Peter Martin (IRFU) AR 2: Andrew Cole (IRFU)

TMO: Brian McNeice (IRFU)

Live on: RTÉ, Viaplay, Premier Sports, SuperSport, Flo Rugby & URC.tv

Clegg

Great week for it.

https://twitter.com/leinsterrugby/status/1737110617440637222?t=HHVaMHAuMy0sSb1cfWaptg&s=09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121514466#Comment_121514466

Personally don't know a single Munster fan that's aggrieved by it. Munster were given the option and chose Kleyn. That's the same decision the lions share of Munster fans would have made.

Jump_In_Jack

Looks like tickets for this are already sold out, is it sold to full capacity? Should be a great event.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121514520#Comment_121514520

Yep, it was announced last week - 25,600 sold.

https://www.munsterrugby.ie/2023/12/12/munster-games-v-leinster-crusaders-confirmed-as-sell-outs/#post

Buer

Not that he's a particularly poor referee but I don't like Brace generally in games I watch. Normally has a very high penalty count and will whistle a team off the park at the breakdown.

For context, in his three games at the RWC, Australia, Samoa and Namibia (the losing teams) were whistled 18, 14 and 13 times respectively. Similarly, Saracens were done 18 times in their ECC knock out against La Rochelle last season. He's an unsympathetic referee which leads to an extremely stilted game with a lot of stoppages.

Hopefully Leinster are on their best behaviour (which they absolutely haven't been this season to date) and select guys who can adjust to the interpretations.

pickarooney

I like that Brace is strict on the offside line, giving teams a bit of space.

Buer

In terms of team selection, Cullen has indicated that Leinster will send a stronger team south than those sent in recent years. The below selection featured last Christmas. Not a bad team at all but I recall that the expectation was the bench was very weak and would probably be the difference:

Leinster: Keenan; Larmour, Ringrose (capt), Osborne, Lowe; R Byrne, N McCarthy; Porter, Sheehan, Healy; Baird, J McCarthy; Ruddock, Penny, Deegan.

Replacements: McKee, Milne, Abdaladze, Molony, Conan, McGrath, H Byrne, Turner.

Probably needs context that guys like Osborne, Penny, Joe McCarthy and arguably Baird weren't as highly rated a year ago as they are now. Nick McCarthy was a very weak option for such a game though in a key position and the bench front row was callow in the extreme.

I'd guess we try to do a bit of mix and match for the two interpros, with all Irish players starting one or the other. For the Munster game, I'd be happy with something along the lines of:

Keenan, Larmour, Henshaw, Frawley, Lowe, Byrne, JGP, Conan, Connors, Deegan, Jenkins (back issue pending), Ryan, Ala'alatoa, Kelleher, Healy.

From a Munster perspective, their injury update yesterday didn't speak too positively for additional returnees. POM appears to have had a minor set back in his recovery and is very much up in the air for this one. Edogbo seems to be closer to a return which would be a big boost as JOD went off injured at the weekend and, if he's ruled out, Commbes will surely revert to 8.

Lord Palmerston

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121516858#Comment_121516858

Just like I think Jack Crowley and Tadhg Beirne are getting a bit flogged by Munster since the RWC, Leinster are in danger of doing the same to JGP.

Cormac Foley's injury has been a real problem, and there's a chance we might have Ben Murphy starting in Thomond, which would be a big problem IMO. This new defensive system seems to ask big questions of the scrum half in covering the back field along with the full back and having to fill gaps when others shoot off the line. To me, we've looked susceptible to chip kicks and grubber kicks in recent times, and Sale scored a very easy try against us on Saturday with this tactic. I'd worry about Murphy's ability to defend like JGP does. We need Luke McGrath healthy asap.

arsebiscuits1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121516823#Comment_121516823

While Brace is probably the best technical referee in Ireland (which his International involvements point to) I just can't get behind his tone when speaking to the players.

Rightly or wrongly rugby has too much of a subjective set of rules (making it near impossible to ref in fairness) but as a result whenever a ref penalises for something there is a conceivable argument that the pen could have gone the other way.

Brace has too much of a tendency to err on the side of "I'm right you're wrong" tone which consistently leads to poor rapport with the players

Hey_Ho_Lets_Go_3

Luke McGrath has returned to full training after returning from a knee injury. Tommy O’Brien (pictured above) has returned to full training after returning from an ankle injury.

Harry Byrne will be further assessed this week as part of the Graduated Return to Play Protocols.

Jason Jenkins (pictured above) was withdrawn at half-time against Sale Sharks with a minor back issue and will be further assessed this week. Charlie Ngatai picked up a calf injury against Sale Sharks and will be unavailable for selection this week.

There are no further updates on: Cormac Foley (shoulder), Ross Byrne (arm), Jamie Osborne (shoulder) and John McKee (hamstring)

Lord Palmerston

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121518376#Comment_121518376

Wish the update on Ngatai was a bit more comprehensive. It looked a really bad injury, which is a shame because he's been playing great.

Great news to have TOB and Luke back in the squad again - both will be valuable over the next busy period.

RichieRich_89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121517147#Comment_121517147

Murphy's good at scrambling to cover kicks and stuff like that. He saved Emerging Ireland two or three times down in SA last season. I'd like to see him get a start in this.

Is the fact JGP was on the field when Sale scored that try not a bit at odds with your "worry about Murphy's ability to defend like JGP does"?

RichieRich_89

I think Münster would be better off picking Rory Scannell at 12. Nankivell looks a bit out of synch with Frisch. Scannell is underrated, I feel, and always seems to play well against Leinster. He gets the Lifeimi Mafi treatment a bit - Munster always trying to sign players to play ahead of him.

sprucemoose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121519391#Comment_121519391

massively agree about scannell but i dont think theres too many others around

Dave_The_Sheep

Jesus. You'd miss Venjur.

Buer

Nankivell has a huge amount of game time this season under his belt. We tend to focus on the Irish test players in terms of minutes but Nankivell completed an NPC season in NZ before landing here. If he features against Leinster, it will be his 20th appearance since the start of August (over 1,300 minutes).

Obviously it's a different level to what he's playing now but there's still a toll and a mental fatigue particularly when you factor in the relocation. He'll need a break at some point.

Munster appear to have a very settled first 20-25 or so players at this point. That's great for continuity but will perhaps take a toll on some guys as the season goes on. Last season, a number of guys were out early in the season or not used as heavily so were really just hitting their stride in the closing months with relatively little mileage for the season. There were guys who ended up being important cogs in those closing weeks that were fit, rested and ready to go. For context, Munster had a 26 matches last season and have played 9 so far this season.

• Archer - 7 starts last season, 5 so far this season
• Loughman - 10 starts last season, 6 so far this season
• Barron - 11 starts last season, 7 so far this season
• Hodnett - 14 starts last season, 7 so far this season
• Daly - 17 starts last season, 8 so far this season
• Nash - 17 starts last season, 8 so far this season
• Crowley - 14 starts last season, 6 so far this season (plus a 6N campaign to lead)
• Casey - 10 starts last season, 6 so far this season

Obviously this is heavily influenced by the injury issues impacting the wider squad with guys like Carbery, Paterson, Kilcoyne, Scannell and the back three mess wreaking havoc. But this is the period of the season when teams generally do get to rotate and the squad is supported by the fringe guys. There are only 2 games during the 6N and, after that, we're into the season run in when you want the above guys on the field week in, week out.

Rowntree will have a big job on his hands to keep some of those guys named above fully fit and mentally fresh. This will be a huge challenge for him come April.

sydthebeat

i fancy munster for the win here. Even without teams being named.

i think they will go as strong as possible for the 26th and then send a callow side to connacht (depending on whos left standing). i wouldn't be surprised either to see a weakened team being sent to toulon, and for Rowntree totarget the saints game at home as his "all-in"

Leinster will send a decent team to Thomond but it wont be a strong as possible imo. You might see LukeMc start with HB, if hes passed fit, or with Frawley. Furlong could do with minutes so hopefully hes back, so we could see a front row of Healy Kelleher Furlong with boyle or byrne at 17, Barron and big Mike. The 4,5 and 19 could be shared between Molony, JoeMc and Baird (assuming Jenkins isnt fit). Hopefully Lowe is back, so a back 3 of Lowe, Keenan and JOB maybe, with larmour / TOB benching? If Frawley starts at 10, it will be henshaw ringrose

so it will be a mix and match team again, which has shown cracks and disconnect so far this season.

on the back of one win in 5 weeks for munster, its pretty much a must win game for them and that will bring them over the line imo.

Cookiemunster

Munster have too many injuries to do anything other than go with the strongest team available. The same will apply for the Connacht game. There's then a week off before Toulon and Northampton and another break, so that won't be a weakened team there either. Hopefully by then POM, Carbery and Kleyn will be available.

Lord Palmerston

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121521342#Comment_121521342

Think Lowe is aiming to be back for Ulster on New Year's Day. He did an interview this week with Extra.ie where he mentioned he's been trying to manage a plantar fascia soreness/injury in recent weeks, somewhat unusual how Leinster haven't referenced it on an injury report.

Other than that - I'd broadly be in agreement with what the team looks like.

I think Munster will want this much more, just naturally. In the Aviva, the general consensus was Munster played well and Leinster poorly, but it still emerged as a Leinster win. They've had a bad run of results since, despite it being dotted with moments of good rugby. By contrast, Leinster are racking up results but the perception is we're not playing well or fluidly.

Granted - right now, Leinster's standards are higher in terms of where we expect to be, but I think the pressure on them to produce a performance, the fact they'll go as strong as they can (injuries permitting) and even the frustration and noise over the Snyman thing will see them produce a performance in front of a hostile home crowd in Thomond.

It's brilliant to have a bit of spice back in this rivalry.

Lord Palmerston

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121521382#Comment_121521382

Surely though the IRFU are going to be demanding Crowley & Beirne are given some period of rest though soon?

There's a strong argument for Munster to be given dispensation to sign another 10 if for no other reason than to give Crowley a break.

Interested Observer

Maybe if Munster had managed Healy a bit better last season and actually played him a but this wouldn't be such an issue, oh well.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121521444#Comment_121521444

Mod: You're trolling and looking for a reaction here.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121521435#Comment_121521435

There's a strong argument for Munster to be given dispensation to sign another 10 if for no other reason than to give Crowley a break.

I remember making this exact argument towards the end of last season on the Munster thread and getting blow-back for it from some quarters.

With Carbery's injury profile, unfortunately this scenario was always likely.

pickarooney

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121521435#Comment_121521435

Does Scannell not play 10 any more?

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121521493#Comment_121521493

No. He's only started 2 games ever for Munster there, the last of which was in 2016.

Cookiemunster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121521435#Comment_121521435

As I said, there's a down week between Connacht and Toulon. Maybe Beirne could be on the bench against Connacht is Edogbo is fit, but unless Carbery is back I can't see Crowley being rested.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121521342#Comment_121521342

It'll take a lot more than a mix and match team from Leinster before I fancy Munster for the win. Especially given their injuries and poor showings in the last few weeks.

mun1

Shur , we haven’t a chance against the Leinster conveyor belt . We will give it a go and hope for the best.

be good if we can keep the score tight up to half time at least

ionadnapokot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121521004#Comment_121521004

Should be ok in the backs. Nash, Daly, Casey and Crowley should be well able to keep trucking.

Even take Crowley as an example. He effectively had a working holiday in France. Less than 80mins over 7 weeks.

The forwards would be a concern.

Esp someone like Beirne. He most be one of the ones with the most minutes, if not the most, for an Irish International this calendar year. I have him at over 1,400 mins the last 12 months.

slingerz

Coombes has the most minutes for Munster AFAIK

Porter is vital to Leinster for me. Without him there work at the breakdown, scrum, maul & lineout all decreased massively. Shows in how often hes expected to go 78/79 minutes in the more challenging fixtures. Same goes for Ireland