Council tenant/downsizing

Whymeme

Can a tenant in social housing be forced to DOWNSIZE, legally, for example if they had children who then moved out?

holliehobbie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058327223/council-tenant-downsizing

Don’t think so, which is absolutely ridiculous when you consider one person may be living in a 2 or 3 bed home when we have so many homeless people in Ireland. I know a person living on their own can’t buy a council property if it is has more than one bedroom though.

Whymeme

How would I find out for sure? There doesn't seem to be anything online giving this information 100%.

Cannot find any resources that confirm this anywhere. Citizens information don't know/can't say. Who could I approach for a definitive answer?

holliehobbie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121504939#Comment_121504939

Contact whichever Councils area the house is in?

Mrs OBumble

Are you the tenant? Look in your agreement with the council.

If not, who are you and why do you care?

(There may be some circumstances where it can be forced, eg a regeneration. But its not normal.)

Whymeme

I'm not the tenant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121504981#Comment_121504981

That doesn't work if it's that same council insisting that the tenant downsizes.

Whymeme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121504996#Comment_121504996

It's it ok to ask for advice on someone's behalf?

There is nothing specific regarding this issue in the tenancy agreement.

Gusser09

They can be downsized. The council own the property and can re issue the tenancy as they see fit. Its extremely unlikely though. They wont have many, if any, 1 beds.

Its proper order too. A council house shouldnt be for life but for ones current circumstances.

Jim_Hodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121504939#Comment_121504939

Contact the council and ask them for the statutes, agreements or by-laws that allow it. Not a difficult question. A Councillor should be able to check it out too.

Personally I think it's a no brainer. Utilise the housing stock to it's max by downsizing where possible.

Whymeme

It's the Council that's trying to force the move, so that doesn't work.

Jim_Hodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121505209#Comment_121505209

What won't work? Asking them for proof of the authority for them to do so?

surrender monkey

Used to work in a council. In some circumstances a tenant would have to down size. For example where the tenant passed away and there was an adult child left in the house who had been paying rent for more than two years. The adult child could apply to succeed the tenancy. Where the adult child would be over accommodated the council would request them to move to the right sized property before giving them a tenancy. This specific council would pursue the tenant through the courts to get the property back. Also would happen where the property had a special designation for example where the property was adapted for a person with a disability or was specifically age friendly etc.

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058327223/council-tenant-downsizing

In some circumstances they can if its a unit allocated for the elderly, or medical purposes. It's definitely happening in SDCC anyway.

"Rightsizing" It seems to be part of their overall plan.

And elderly neighbour of mine (70s) was recently moved from a two bed on my road to a one bed and from what she told me, she wasn't given any choice, as the unit she was in was allocated based on her husband's medical needs and her husband had passed away.

SDCC are building schemes of one and two bed apartments for over 50s only, and Cluid are housing others.

https://www.sdcc.ie/en/news/construction-of-81-older-persons-homes-approved.html

And another (afaik, these are now allocated)

https://scollarddoyle.ie/2020/08/cluid-and-south-dublin-county-council-residential-project/

Whymeme

This is all I could find

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/how-more-than-10000-social-houses-are-under-occupied-as-crisis-deepens/37456381.html#:~:text=The%20country's%20largest%20local%20authority,cannot%20compel%20people%20to%20downsize.

Spanish Eyes

OP, is there a problem with the tenant downsizing, or what is it that they want to happen, or not happen maybe?

Whymeme

They are disabled and use a wheelchair. Being obliged to move to a very small property, there is wheelchair access but no space to actually manoeuvre it if you actually furnish it.

holliehobbie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121505716#Comment_121505716

Get on to the local councillors in that case. They’ll be all over especially with elections coming up!

zell12

bedroom tax 💡 !!

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121505716#Comment_121505716

How many bedrooms does her current home have, and has it been adapted for wheelchair access?

I genuinely don't know if speaking to a councillor will help much, we have a councillor living on my road, and they said they were unable to do anything about our neighbour's move.

But there is no harm in reaching out, especially if you believe the new accommodation being offered is unsuitable for her needs.

Whymeme

Thanks.

Her new living room is tiny. Put one small sofa in it, no room for anything else let alone room to move around in a chair.

It get can get in through the door, but that's about it.

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121505182#Comment_121505182

The tenant can tell the council that you are authorised to ask questions on their behalf. There's probably a form they'll have to fill in.

Whymeme

Just wondered if there might be an actual legal avenue we could pursue.

This is all happening very quickly and she's been given basically 6 weeks, but no option to refuse at all.

She has not been allowed to actually view it, but has gone herself and knocked on a door, asked to have a look around.

And that is how she has realised it is way way way not suitable, even though she had already voiced concerns to the council and they told her it was wheelchair ok. It most definitely is not.

xyz13

*legal avenue* 🗣️

endofrainbow

Occupational therapists report ?

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121507210#Comment_121507210

They have to allow her to view it, is it a case that its being worked on?

The unit she looked at may have a different internal layout, if its being adapted.

twowheelsonly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121506962#Comment_121506962

That's disgraceful. Occupational Therapists report is definitely the way to get this stopped. Council houses are distributed on 'need and suitability' so once they can disprove the suitability aspect it should be enough to get it stopped.

Just as much of a disgrace is that they will never be able to buy that, or any other council property. Under the Tenant Purchase Scheme most tenants have an option to buy their homes. (Whether people agree with that or not is a whole different conversation but it's basically so that the council don't get stuck with 40/50/100 year old houses that need endless work and it helps to 'gentrify' areas) If the house has been adapted to cater for a disabled person then that person or their family can never buy that house thanks to the Minister For Tits On A Bull Coveney signing off on the scheme a few years ago. It kind of flies in the face of houses being allocated based on your needs.

Glurrl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121507210#Comment_121507210

She had already voiced her concerns before seeing it?

Whymeme

Yes