Jury service, what do they know about you?

naughtysmurf

I was recently called for jury service, my hand was on the bible about to be sworn in & one side decided they didn’t want me so was just wondering what information the prosecution or defence have about you as a potential juror or was it that they just didn’t like the cut of my jib on the day, just interested

thanks

GBX

I wouldn't worry about not being picked. Its both sides prerogative to pick and choose if they don't like a juror for whatever reason. Could be any reason but it is not based on info about you.

bennyx_o

They know nothing about you, your juror number is called, you go into the court toom and proceed to get sworn in. The a certain number of rejection allowed without reason.

Someone more clued in on the issue will probably be along soon and can be more exact

bullpost

I'd guess it purely on appearance and their preferred profile for the case being defended e.g. they may not want older, conservative people etc.

I'd imagine it wouldn't be good for defence team to have access to your personal details if you end up on the jury.

naughtysmurf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121461701#Comment_121461701

I’m not worried or offended, each side can reject seven without giving a reason, I’m just interested in knowing what information they have other than I assume my name & address, that’s all

GBX

Yeah, that's all really.

jasonb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058325917/jury-service-what-do-they-know-about-you

Am curious, was your hand literally on a Bible? Is that used for swearing in?

Dial Hard

They know pretty much nothing about you but a huge amount of on-the-spot profiling is done based on your age, gender, clothing, comportment, general demeanour, etc. Jury selection is something of an artform and both sides will try to stack the jury in what they see as their favour, e.g. in sexual assault cases the defence generally want more male than female jurors, etc. It's a dance between the prosecution and the defence based on who they think is going to be most favourable towards their desired outcome.

Allinall

They know your occupation.

degrassinoel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121461773#Comment_121461773

it's there alright, you can choose to affirm if the bible isnt your thing.

PTH2009

Had it yesterday and got left off on health grounds due to an ASD diagnosis cert

Needs to be something more discret than been forced to go into the court room and swear an oath. I didn't know what I had to say because they flew through all the 'instructions' in the waiting room

axer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121461817#Comment_121461817

Exactly, they know your occupation and definitely use that as a factor which I know from experience. You'll find that if there is a money laundering case, for example, then the prosecution will probably go for people who work in roles such as IT/Admin/Accountancy because others might get way too bored making it difficult to present the normally tedious detailed evidence. Other than that its age, gender and possibly how you present yourself.

naughtysmurf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121461773#Comment_121461773

Yes, just above it a millisecond away from resting on it

naughtysmurf

On a side note, a good few were excused for the following, I didn’t notice any requirement for evidence, judge just excused on the spot

“I have a driving lesson for my driving test”

I have a hospital appointment

I have an interview

My Partner is a Guard

Dental appointment

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121461881#Comment_121461881

I got off jury service when I was in college because I couldn't miss a load of time potentially. I didn't have to go near the court though, there were instructions on the original letter I got outlining where to send certs or whatever proof back if I couldn't do it.

coylemj

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121461817#Comment_121461817

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121462024#Comment_121462024

How do they know your occupation? It's not asked for when you register to vote. I just checked my entry in the register of electors and there's nothing about my occupation.

You get a jury summmons, you turn up. How does anyone in the courts service or either of the legal teams in the case you will be hearing know your occupation?

Allinall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121462588#Comment_121462588

It's asked of you when you are being enpanelled in the court, as far as I can recall.

axer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121462588#Comment_121462588

IIRC you have to reply to the summons and I think they ask you for your occupation on the reply form.

Princess Calla

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121462234#Comment_121462234

Yeah I got called just before my finals , so sent in a letter from the college.

I'm hearing impaired now so I'd say I'd be exempt now, unless they want a juror who wouldn't have a notion about what's going on.

naughtysmurf

Just checked there, I had to supply occupation info when replying to summons

Sonic the Shaghog

Most of it is the cut of you.

If the defendant is Anto who's accused of dealing and anti social behavior they don't want Caroline the middle class accountant coming in, they'd prefer Jacinta the single mother.

If it's Tarquin from Dublin 4 who's accused of embezzling from his company they want the likes Geoffrey and Benjamin the finance bros not Paddy the farmer or Decco whos unemployed.

Quitelife

Spent a week on a jury last year and it only took us half an hour to find the defendant guilty - The judge then gave him a suspended sentence!!

Waste of everyone’s time , sums up why there is so much crime in this country .

erlichbachman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121463517#Comment_121463517

Your role is jury, not executioner.

I went some time ago and would recommend the experience to everybody, the food was really nice, and its fascinating sticking 12 random people in a room and seeing how they get along. After that case I made promise to myself that I would never break the law in case I ended up on trial, not gonna lie some of those people selected hadn't a breeze what was going on, to think that somebody's freedom was in the hands of some of those people is frightening. Thankfully the case got thrown out after a few days.

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121461810#Comment_121461810

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121463339#Comment_121463339

I don't think this is true in Ireland.

The culture among prosecuting authorities is very much that you take the jury you get. Unless there's a real issue, like one of the jurors has a connection to a witness or to the defendant, the prosecution doesn't often challenge jurors.

The defence does so a bit more frequently, but they have very limited information about the jurors and most experienced criminal lawyers are very aware of how unreliable stereotypes are. In the real world, Jacinta the single mother is much more likely than Caroline the middle-class accountant to live in a community ravaged by drug-dealing and anti-social behaviour; she is concerned about protecting her own kids; why would you assume that she is tolerant of this? Geoffrey and Benjamin the finance bros can read a set of accounts, won't be so easily blindsided by technical arguments about bookkeeping practices as others might be, and just might actually think that honest is important in the financial professions. There's no real reason to think that challenging jurors based on lazy stereotypes will, in the real world, have the effect that the stereotypes would suggest.

Sonic the Shaghog

Hate to break it to you bro, friends a solicitor it's common carry on.

If Jacinta looks rough theres a higher chance she'll see Anto more on her level, the Gardai coming down hard cause he's from a disadvantaged background like herself.

The finance bros it's thought they see your man as one of their own, where as Paddy the farmer might see a rich fella that needs taking down a peg or two, same to Decco

There's how's things work and there's how you'd hope things work.

Pauliedragon

I know a couple of people who got the letter and just didn't bother turning up. There was no follow-up on them.

bobbyD1978

Neither side knows you're occupation. Neither side knows anything at all about you. They dont know your name, address, age or occupation.

The court service know these things but it's confidential.

Rejection is sometimes based on stereotype but a lot of the time arts ad hoc. If you sit in court you will see the prosecution isn't even looking half the time.

Hotblack Desiato

The prosecution might not be looking but you can be sure the defence is.

Why on earth would the court service ask for occupation then if they're not going to tell anyone...?

I thought they were supposed to reject before the swearing stage started i.e. if it looked like you were going to affirm instead of swear they couldn't use that as grounds. At least that's what I recall from the two juries I served on

No-one should have to declare in court what their religion is or is not, it's easy to imagine certain jurors taking a dim view of non-Christians and if I was a defendant I'd be getting my hand on that bible for sure! The notion is archaic in the extreme.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058325917/jury-service-what-do-they-know-about-you

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121461817#Comment_121461817

What does a naughty smurf do?

Hotblack Desiato

Probably something similar to a disgraced ex-president.

Donald Trump

Well to be fair, I am indeed partial to painting myself blue and running around half naked

Everyone needs a hobby

Glaceon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121465775#Comment_121465775

I was on a jury once outside of Dublin and it was at the swearing in stage that the objections were made. Our names were called out during the various roll calls, which made some of my colleagues very uncomfortable.

Hotblack Desiato

Oh yeah at the swearing in stage but once you started either swearing in or asked to affirm (you have to f'kin ask 🙄 ) it was too late.

PTH2009

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121467509#Comment_121467509

The judge can be some surly ballax

There should be a way of trying to talk to the judge privately if you need to be excused. Instead of having to stand in front of everyone, made start swear the oath and try say 'can I speak to you' etc

naughtysmurf

We were instructed by court staff before entering the courtroom that when your name was called aloud to swear the oath, it was at that point you must tell the judge that you wish to be excused & not after you take the oath, not sure what would happen if you took the oath & then offered your excuse, immediately after taking the oath you are directed to take your seat on the jury

CalamariFritti

Not much. They invited me for jury service and it was up to me to tell them I dont qualify cos Im not an Irish citizen.

apache

I've been called a few times but I don't qualify because of my job. I thought they would have recorded that after the first time.

Hotblack Desiato

You might have changed job and 'forgot' to tell them that you are now eligible for service 😁

coylemj

Can someone say for definite what the courts service do with the data (your occupation) that you provide when you reply to the sumnmons?

I was called for jury service. I showed up and listed to the instructions from the registrar and the judge. They then started to empanel a jury. My name was called, I stepped forward and took the bible in my hand. I don't recall the prosecution or defence looking me up on a list of potential jurors and their occupations to decide if they would reject me. As far I know, they knew nothing about me other than my name.

As others have said, the decision to reject you seems to be based purely on sight - the look of you. Is that correct or does the prosecution and defence get a list of names, addresses and occupations of the current jury pool?

axer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121471589#Comment_121471589

They've looked at those details before you walk into the room. I've seen it in a number of sources (such as https://www.thejournal.ie/jury-service-in-ireland-1385791-Mar2014/) that both sides have your name and occupation but I can't find any official source. My experience is they probably do have occupation.

cml387

Many years ago I was called for jury service. In the selection process one chap had a three piece suit and an attache case. When he was called there was an immediate challenge from the defence. I can't help thinking he was dressed like that deliberately.

If you really want to serve on a jury, dress anonymously is my advice.

Calahonda52

worth a look

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Runaway_Jury

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121472028#Comment_121472028

If I'm called again, I'm going in full-on biker gear and the most obnoxious band t-shirt I can rustle up

I've served on two juries, I've done my bit.

I can see why people might want to see what happens the first time out of curiosity, but in reality sitting around for all or most of a week is a bore, and doing it a second time is just a pain.

First time around was a rape trial - it's common today to give long exemptions from jury service for these but we got nothing.

Second time around was an assault case - nobody on the jury could figure out how on earth the DPP thought there was enough evidence to prosecute, it was a waste of everyone's time. There was a very young looking prosecuting counsel, it seemed like a training run for her...

That was a lucky escape though, we had video link in the jury room as Mark Nash was being arraigned, I mean everyone recognised him and knew he was already convicted of murders and didn't want to be assigned to that trial for sure... some people in the same batch as me had to serve on his trial.

Victor

Occupation is important as some people are mandatorily excluded, e.g. they are a garda, while some have the option of self exclusion, e.g. a surgeon.

magicbastarder

Regarding how often there's an objection to a potential juror, my one experience was of being number 19 on a panel of 20 (for a sexual assault case) and the jury being completed by the time they got to panellist number 18 - in short, one in three people were objected to.

Victor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121489578#Comment_121489578

Objected to or self-excluded (maybe they knew someone)?

magicbastarder

objected to by defence or prosecution; there were (very rough guess) 80 people called for jury duty, 5 cases in front of the court, two or three of which went to trial so jury formation happened at the time.

those of us not picked were told to go home; no need to return the following day. it was the central criminal court, so they don't have a huge volume of cases they needed juries for.

cml387

BTW if there is a problem with you serving AFTER you take the oath, the whole process of selection may have start again. This happened in my experience when a selected sworn. in juror announced that he was unable to read or write