Diageo selling beer brands.

clivej · 05-12-2023 9:30pm #1

Diageo is looking to sell beer brands including Smithwick's, Kilkenny and Harp Lager, based in Ireland

irish_goat · 05-12-2023 9:38pm

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/spirits-giant-diageo-seeking-to-sell-some-irish-beer-brands-including-smithwicks-reports/a1556299106.html

Surprising news given their plans to build their new brewery in Kildare. Can't be planning just to use that for Rockshore.

Justin10 · 05-12-2023 10:23pm

Very surprising, 3 brands with a bit of promotion could see huge growth.

Never liked harp but it was very popular.

Smitwicks and especially Kilkenny are lovely.

squonk · 05-12-2023 10:41pm

Haven’t seen Kilkenny in a while but Smithwicks is my staple on a night out. Apart from Guinness I’d put those as being the only authentic stuff there have. I know Kilkenny is kind of invented but it is arid 30 years now. The rest of the Diageo beer repertoire is just trendy shíte. Hop House is grand but if she stuck to Smithwicks unless proper craft beer was available

BeerNut · 06-12-2023 7:20am

I'm guessing the new brewery will be part of the package and will make it much easier to sell.

irish_goat · 06-12-2023 8:52am

"its beer brands were a margin drag on the rest of the business"

I wonder if they'll eventually sell Guinness too. Presumably the above sentence also applies to it. Would be unusual for a large brewery to only have 1(2?) brands as well.

Or maybe they'll wail until the St.Jame's Gate land becomes a little more valuable...

blackbox · 06-12-2023 8:58am

Diageo is a multinational focused on international brands.

It is not unusual for them to sell off "local" brands. They see Guinness as a global brand and that is where they will spend their marketing budget.

emo72 · 06-12-2023 9:01am

If they were thinking long term they would have all manufacturing away from James Street. That's more valuable as real estate now.

clivej · 06-12-2023 9:07am

They also brew Budwiser under licence. That was the number 1 lager but not anymore.

irish_goat · 06-12-2023 9:12am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121460588#Comment_121460588

Not anymore. They started making Rockshore to replace it.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121460563#Comment_121460563

In this day and age having 1 brand doesn't do them any favours when up against Heineken, C&C etc though. They've been coasting as the goliath of the stout market for a long time but I don't see that lasting either.

L1011 · 06-12-2023 9:15am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121460588#Comment_121460588

It went to c&c which has been part of its precipitous demise

alias no.9 · 06-12-2023 9:19am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121460572#Comment_121460572

They built a large new factory on the site a little over 10 years ago, when they consolidated Smithwicks and Harp operations into St James's Gate, you can see the grey clad building near the quays. It had originally been supposed to be built in Leixlip and land at St James's Gate freed up for development. Now we're back to a greenfield brewery in Kildare and getting Smithwicks and Harp out of St James's Gate.

Geuze · 06-12-2023 11:00am

"its beer brands were a margin drag on the rest of the business"

Given the high selling prices in Ireland, this is hard to believe.

Of course, they earn less margin selling these beers abroad, where there is more competition.

artanevilla · 06-12-2023 11:03am

How much is the Irish market worth in the grand scheme of things?

loyatemu · 06-12-2023 11:39am

presumably they're holding onto McArdles for the massive profits it generates?

L1011 · 06-12-2023 11:50am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121461167#Comment_121461167

They appear to be selling absolutely everything that doesn't have Guinness in the name..

The Carlsberg licence will be an issue as they (Carlsberg) won't want it going to a rival. Guinness got it in the first place as they refused to have Carling near it when Elders IXL bought Beamish.

They are a potential purchaser of the lot of course.

ted1 · 06-12-2023 11:58am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121461212#Comment_121461212

do people actually drink Carlsberg? i though it went out of fashion with Budweiser.

Black Sheep · 06-12-2023 12:09pm

*Conor McGregor has entered the chat*

...Joking, I presume his pockets aren't deep enough to acquire one of these.

L1011 · 06-12-2023 12:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121461245#Comment_121461245

More than drink Budweiser these days. Still semi widely available on tap and very available in off-sales

loyatemu · 06-12-2023 12:24pm

yeah there's always supermarket deals on Carlsberg cans (in as much as anything can be described as a "deal" post-MUP).

In pubs they've been serving it in fancy stemmed glasses; they were plugging some sort of "unfiltered" version a while back, not sure if that's still around. Carlsberg is fine, inoffensive. I think it has a bit more flavour than Rockshore but I'd have to compare them to be sure, which I'm not going to do...

SodiumCooled · 06-12-2023 6:53pm

I would have thought Carlsberg would be one of the top selling beers in the country no? Guinness and probably Heineken ahead of it I’d have thought. It’s very popular in pubs around my way but that’s probably helped by the fact a few pubs don’t sell Heineken so carlsberg would be second only to Guinness but the main larger sold.

irish_goat · 06-12-2023 7:00pm

Fairly sure Heineken is the best selling beer overall, then Guinness. Would guess that Rockshore and Coors Light would be above Carlsberg too.

Geuze · 06-12-2023 8:06pm

Here is some info, but no brand data:

SodiumCooled · 07-12-2023 11:46am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121463192#Comment_121463192

Interesting, from my own experience I would see virtually no one drinking Rockshore I didn't think it was making any inroads into the market but again maybe its depended on location e.g. its drank much more in Dublin rather than down south.

Heineken's popularity always puzzles me a lot - to me its one of the worst lagers and I'd put say Carlsberg way ahead of it but it seems to be liked by so many.

Black Sheep · 07-12-2023 12:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121465911#Comment_121465911

I was going to say the same about Carlsberg, relative to Heineken... Of the two I would opt for Carlsberg, personally. But I wouldn't feel strongly about it.

irish_goat · 07-12-2023 12:47pm

I'd rarely drink either these days but I probably have a more negative perception of Carlsberg as it reminds me of teenage friends drinking warm cans of it outside and I was never really able to get a taste for it. Heineken on the other hand was something I always drank cold and on draught.

lintdrummer · 07-12-2023 12:50pm

Kilkenny is a great beer. A bit of marketing would do wonders for it. You don't see it many places on draught or in a can. I was in the local Lidl yesterday (in Kilkenny) and they had all the big brands, including Smithwicks, but no Kilkenny.

loyatemu · 07-12-2023 1:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121466240#Comment_121466240

what is the difference between Kilkenny and Smithwicks - isn't Kilkenny just the nitrogenated version of the latter?

squonk · 07-12-2023 2:14pm

Is it? I haven’t had it in years and you don’t see it anymore but speaking from memory, my impression was that Kilkenny was really smooth and just very drinkable whereas Smithwicks is a bit more robust as you’re driving.

JPup · 07-12-2023 2:25pm

Kilkenny is quite different to Smithwicks. Kilkenny settles like a Guinness and has a thick head.

Considering people here will argue over a preference between Carlberg and Heineken or Murphys and Guinness, which I don't think I could reliably tell apart in a blind taste test, there is a much bigger difference between Smithwicks and Kilkenny.

SodiumCooled · 07-12-2023 2:37pm

Kilkenny is a very nice beer, I don't think Ive ever had it on draft really as its more of an export beer from my understanding. I would be a Guinness drinker primarily with Smithwicks as a fall back but I think Kilkenny is probably nicer as is smoother. It also really works well in cans, seems to work better than Guinness from a can to campare it with another nitro beer.

I must keep an eye out for a few cans for over the christmas actually.

odyssey06 · 07-12-2023 2:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121466866#Comment_121466866

The export situation is complicated... if you order "Kilkenny" abroad what you actually get is Smithwicks, at least that's been my experience on the Continent.

Kilkenny used to pop up on draught in more touristy pubs in Dublin city centre. Last place I had it on draught was The Palace Bar but that's a while back now.

irish_goat · 07-12-2023 3:02pm

Kilkenny is on tap in the Garrick in Belfast and it's mainly locals I see drinking it. I assume Diageo aren't fussed about pushing it as they reckon a Kilkenny drinker will just order Guinness or Smithwicks if it's not available. Whereas the touristy pubs actively ask for it as they know tourists will be looking for it.

BeerNut · 07-12-2023 3:37pm

The story I heard is that Guinness, as was, in the '80s/'90s wanted to launch Smithwick's in the US but Americans couldn't pronounce it so they called it Kilkenny instead. The launch of Kilkenny as a different beer came later, and Diageo has since launched Smithwick's in the US under its own name.

Smithwick's is 3.8% ABV here, 4.5% in the US, and always carbonated. Kilkenny is 4.3% (though I think there's a 3.5% version in some markets) and it's always nitrogenated on draught and in cans.

odyssey06 · 07-12-2023 3:54pm

The other offerings from Smithwicks seemed to die a death during covid - pale ale, blonde ale.

irish_goat · 07-12-2023 4:12pm

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2023/1206/1420488-diageo-may-sell-smithwicks-harp-and-kilkenny-report/

Update to the news. Although there is no actual denial from Diageo in the article.

lintdrummer · 07-12-2023 4:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121466451#Comment_121466451

Kilkenny is a Cream Ale. Smithwicks is a Red Ale. Basically, Kilkenny is less hoppy, creamier and seeing as it's nitrogenated, it has a thick creamy head like a Guinness. It's a unique style, but I'd rather it over Smithwicks.

BeerNut · 07-12-2023 5:05pm

Kilkenny is not a cream ale. Kilkenny says "Cream Ale" on the can because Diageo doesn't know what an actual cream ale is, and they just like the sound of the words.

Cream ales are usually cool fermented and their signature ingredient is sweetcorn. Kilkenny is neither. It's a red ale.

SodiumCooled · 07-12-2023 5:09pm

I remember having Guinness red in the UK somewhere too in the past - it was very like Kilkenny if not actually Kilkenny under a different name.

listermint · 07-12-2023 5:12pm

I suppose the margin drag is the hilarious part of it. Just shows the absolute pennies they make spirits for and charge an absolute fortune for. Some of them byproducts of other distillations.

Spirits is pure robbery profit. The fact that they say beers are 'margin drags' shows the nonsense they're getting away with in spirits.

BeerNut · 07-12-2023 5:16pm

Guinness Red was different from Kilkenny. As a red ale, Kilkenny has a significant crystal malt component to give it a toffee/caramel effect. Guinness Red didn't have that. It seems to have been Guinness with just a lower roasted barley level. It was bland as hell.

ted1 · 07-12-2023 5:31pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121467241#Comment_121467241

I really liked the blonde, shame its no longer available

ted1 · 07-12-2023 5:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121463166#Comment_121463166

i would put in behind Heino, Coors light, Rocksore, Hop house, etc

squonk · 07-12-2023 6:40pm

Id put Carlsberg way ahead of Heineken. I don’t know how anyone drinks Heineken. It’s awful muck. Funny but I had Heineken abroad, probably the UK and it was much better. I think Rockshore is pi$$. Struck me always as lager for people who don’t like beer. I’ve had bottles of coors but have absolutely no recollection of my impression which probably means it’s not great either.