Collision on roundabout

rob316

Looking for some advice here and who you think is liable.

I was at a roundabout yesterday in my van, its a traffic light roundabout, entered the roundabout on the green but another car coming from a different direction struck me on my drivers side (just by front wheel arch). Van is old but its wrecked, couldn't drive it away, write off for sure. Her damage looks cosmetic

She says its my fault as she was on the roundabout and had right of way, I obeyed the traffic lights and drove as normal. I'm guessing the traffic backed up coming from my right after the lights and she drove on.

I think it'll be settled 50/50 but what do you think? impact says she hit me

whippet

Correct me if I'm wrong but regardless of the lights the rules of the road say that you must give way to traffic already on the roundabout

10-10-20

I think- and I could be wrong- that signal controlled roundabouts are treated as traffic-light junctions so the normal priority to vehicles already on the roundabout is not given as traffic lights must be obeyed. I'm guessing that the other driver passed through a red light on the roundabout before the impact?

MacDanger

More like 70/30 or 80/20 liability for you I'd say tbh. I'd see it like this:

• she almost certainly broke the lights by the sounds of it but you've no actual proof of that so it's probably moot
• you were stationary at the lights and had an obligation to check that the way was clear before proceeding (this is the main point I think)
• since she hit you at the front wheel, it sounds like she was pretty close to you before you pulled out (if she had hit you say at the rear wheel, her liability would increase IMO)

rob316

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121457797#Comment_121457797

I honestly don't know, I had a quick look to my right before entering but nothing far back. My best guess is she did break the red light on her side but I have no proof.

Calahonda52

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121457830#Comment_121457830

There is a recent thread here who broke a red light but still got big mula where the key point was the safe to proceed test as noted by big Mac here

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/cyclist-who-broke-red-light-and-got-hit-by-car-settles-court-action-for-e190000-1541216.html

kdevitt

This is entirely dependent on the roundabout itself - there are multiple roundabouts near me with a set of traffic lights just before the roundabout, but the roundabout itself is not signal controlled - so you'd need to yield to traffic on the roundabout. Likewise, there are roundabouts where the lights control your access to the roundabout and its treated like a normal junction.

Stick up a streetview image of the roundabout and people will have a better idea - but unless she had a traffic light immediately in front of your entry point I'd imagine you're responsible for not yielding to her.

artanevilla

The airport roundabout is a good example maybe, you can be passed the light (beyond the white line, but stuck in traffic so that you are "behind" traffic entering the roundabout from the next exit which now has a green light.

artanevilla

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121458211#Comment_121458211

See below with signals marked red and green, blue cars have cleared the red light while it was green, yellow cars entering on the green light and brown cars the waiting traffic.

Blue cars have right of way.

rob316

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121458186#Comment_121458186

Good idea, this is what I marked out for the insurance company earlier

Roundabout is completely signalled with lights.

I was just showing what direction the TP was coming from. She is coming from the east

Squatman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121458232#Comment_121458232

thanks for this, i had trouble visualising any scenario in which the OP would be in the wrong. This scenario, altho sounds different to the OP, would see the cars in yellow being liable IMO. OP did say he/she didn't see any oncoming cars,- so might not be the actual scenario. would love a similar graphic from OP.?

if the traffic wasn't bumper to bumper as described in the pic above, then the OP is not liable. they were adhering to the ROTR and proceeded when lights turned green. anything on the contrary to this will be incorrect

Viscount Aggro

It's illegal to stop on a roundabout. Driver should only enter roundabout if their way is clear, and give way to cars already on roundabout coming from right.

I know a few roundabouts in Dublin, cars coming from right, will not let you on... Involves causing a near pile-up, if you try and enter.

Calahonda52

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121458303#Comment_121458303

not quite: proceeded when lights turned green.... iff safe to do so

rob316

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121458334#Comment_121458334

I understand that but this is a traffic light roundabout. I'm trying to figure out liability

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121458352#Comment_121458352

Did the other driver break a red light? or was the light just to let you onto the round about?

MacDanger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121458264#Comment_121458264

Is this the location on streetview:

N27 - Google Maps

Which lane were you in?

artanevilla

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121458334#Comment_121458334

Traffic light controlled roundabouts you are obliged to stop on red.

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121458334#Comment_121458334

Traffic light roundabouts you stop at each red light, of which there can be multiple. Lights are sequenced such that you never need to yield, as traffic to your right will always have a red when you have a green.

artanevilla

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121458334#Comment_121458334

The cars coming from the right are not letting you on because they have right of way and I would expect it would cause a near pile up if your try and enter a roundabout into oncoming traffic!

rob316

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121458357#Comment_121458357

excellent I am on the left outside lane to take 2nd exit. I was 100% green entering the roundabout.

BornSkippy

Both of you had lights facing you at your respective entrances to the junction.

If she was behind her lights, which were red, when you entered the junction on a green light, then you did so when the way was clear.

If she had passed her lights, and was moving towards her exit to your left, when you entered the junction on a green light, then you entered when the way was not clear.

rob316

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121458496#Comment_121458496

My absolute best guess what happened as I honestly don't remember seeing her until she hit me.

traffic was queued at the next set of lights ahead, I waited a moment on green as I'll only block the 1st exit if I go straight away. I think she was queued on her entrance too, went past the lights, stopped, which were now red, I entered and she drove towards me as we were going for the same lane.

MacDanger

You probably don't know but what was she doing? Staying in her lane and taking the exit for N40 West? Or changing lanes to move into your lane for a subsequent exit?

rob316

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121458605#Comment_121458605

I'm on the outside lane and judging from where she hit me, she is coming into my lane.

MacDanger

Maybe more like 50/50 then imo; incidents like this are where you'd really need a dash cam

rob316

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121458897#Comment_121458897

100% ordered them for all vehicles we have today.

Unrealistic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121458303#Comment_121458303

That's not what the Rules of the Road say. If anything it says the opposite.

If you can prove the other driver broke the red you might get shared liability. Or if you can credibly argue that other driver was in the inner lane, and the collision occurred because they moved into the outer lane which was already occupied by the van, then you might even succeed in getting a ruling that they caused the collision. But it's already been covered on another thread here in the past that, if you enter a lane and move into the path of a vehicle already in control of that lane, you are at fault even if they hit you and they should not have been in that lane in the first place. The earlier example was someone moving into a bus lane at the correct point to turn left, and being hit by a driver who had illegally entered the bus lane early, but there are lots of similarities with entering a roundabout into the path of another car.

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121458435#Comment_121458435

The pic explains a lot imo, she ran the light really late (had to have been red given the pause between red for one lane and green for the other) so by the time she got across to your lane you had a green and proceeded. No doubt she had sped up when the light was turning so couldn't avoid the collision.

I'd definitely be fighting it, her assertion that she had right of way because it was a roundabout is irrelevant since it was signal controlled.

fritzelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121459163#Comment_121459163

Saying she had right of way when she went thru a red light is ridiculous

Ginger83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121458117#Comment_121458117

That's scandalous

User1998

No point even debating this. Leave it up to the insurance companies.