How accurate are average speed cameras

Hi,

Since I get good advice here.

How accurate are the average speed cameras?

My car with the turbo issues, I got a FCN in last week from the week previous to my turbo going ( and I hope not related) That says I was doing 129 in a 120 zone.

My car has a limiter on it, which was set to 120, so I am a little perplexed as to how I got this notice.

I rang the FCN line, and they said you can go to court to contest it, but if you lose you are gambling that you are right and can get 5 points instead of 3. Which I find mad in itself, it sounds like you take our word for it, or risk a much bigger fine and penalty.

Anyone any advice?

Victor

Were you provided with the two photos and the elapsed time involved? Divide the distance by the time.

Are your tyres the correct size?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121451750#Comment_121451750

Hi,

No, just one photo and nothing about time or anything, just your standard FCN.

And yes, I think the tires are a standard size. I even had the satnav on which said I was doing 120

Allinall

If it was just one photo, then it wasn't an average speed camera.

You have two choices as outlined above.

theintern

If tyres are different that could mean you're going faster than you think.

They'd have to massively bigger though for be 9kmph over, accounting for the usual 2/3kmph that car speedometers usually read over wouldn't they?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121451788#Comment_121451788

Hi, I don't think they are any bigger than normal sized, 225r18 I think?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121451776#Comment_121451776

The FCN says it is?

What is supposed to be on a FCN for a average-speed camera?

I did call the number on the form also, I was told it was an average-speed camera.

Last Time I ever got a speeding fine was like 10+ years ago, so thankfully not familiar with this.

Oscar_Madison

Could the limiter possibly have been set to 130 by accident? It would make more sense given you were clocked at 129?

Very unlucky if indeed that’s how it happened - but in fairness you’d tend to know you’re doing 130 in most cars as it feels just that little bit faster than 120 in that your concentration levels tend to be more focused than lower speeds on a motorway

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121451817#Comment_121451817

Where did you get it? Isn’t there a relatively new average speed camera on is it the M7?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121451836#Comment_121451836

Hey,

No, 100% it was set to the 120 mark as I have it pre-set that way.

rocketspocket

if the camera wasn't calibrated correctly, or the distance between the cameras was input incorrectly then of-course it could have incorrectly registered that you broke the speed limit when you actually didn't. That said, everyone on the road would be getting a speeding ticket and that would be flagged to the enforcing team.

That said, these camera provide legally admissible evidence which you should push to get a copy of if you indeed believe you were not speeding.. if you fail using the traditional route then go back to them via GDPR legislation

SharkMX

One of our cars speedo is out by 10% compared to the gps readings on both Waze and google maps.

The other cars is 3% out.

Victor

There are only two average speed camera systems in the county.

M7 - around the Limerick-Tipperary border.

M50 - port tunnel.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121451881#Comment_121451881

Hi,

It was the M7 one, Birdhill.

I didnt think a car speedo could be out?

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121451864#Comment_121451864

Get as much info as you can so - sounds like you might need to pay a solicitor a few Bob- as someone “recovering” from 3 penalty points for the past 3 years, if I was absolutely certain I wasn’t doing 130 I’d probably go that route myself - you’re 100% sure, so you obviously have a sure fire method of setting the speed each time - no harm in borrowing a sat nav from someone or your phone if it can do it to check that your Speedo matches what’s displayed on the device.

Jim_Hodge

Where did the speeding happen? There are very few average speed cameras installed.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121451912#Comment_121451912

birdhill

bazz26

I go through that zone on the M7 a few times a month and the M7 is one of the busiest roads in the country so if the average speed camera calibration was off then it would make the news. If you were clocked at doing 129kph in the average speed camera zone then your speedo was reading much higher at the time over that distance. Every car's speedo accuracy is overestimated by design under EU regulations to give the driver some benefit of the doubt. So if you were done for 129kph then your speedo was probably showing around 133kph on average through the camera zone.

Not sure if fines from an average speed zone are issued automatically or are reviewed by a human like with go safe speed camera vans but any leeway above the legal speed limit would be small, probably 5kph at best.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121452190#Comment_121452190

Hi,

I agree to some of this, but honest to god, my speed limit was set to 120. It's why I am checking out how accurate these things are.

I might, when I get the car back, check it with a separate sat nav system to see if there is any difference. The way my car is at the moment Id say nothing would surprise me.

granturismo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121451901#Comment_121451901

If you're relying on your car speedo alone to mount an appeal you wont have much luck.

Kimbot

Even with Cruise Control you can still easily put your foot down on the accelerator and go faster than what its set at.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121452319#Comment_121452319

Its not cruise control, its a limiter. You can set it to a max speed so it doesnt go over it.

Boardnashea

You will still be able to go over the limit you have set if you put the foot down.

Did you do a bit of overtaking during the drive?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121452391#Comment_121452391

twice yes, but only for a car going at around 80 and a van towing a trailer

steinbock123

On my car, if you set the limier to 120 , as opposed to the cruise control, you can put your foot down to the floor and it won’t go over 120.

And remember, they have written the law so that no one can take a case , or use as a defence, that the camera was wrongly calibrated. It is presumed in court that the camera is correct in all instances, it’s taken to be NEVER wrong. (Even if it actually is). They just don’t want people contesting speeding cases if at all possible.

From the sounds of it, just easier to pay the fine/ points and move on?

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121452484#Comment_121452484

The cameras themselves aren't checking the speed. they just record when the car passes and work out the average speed based on the distance between the cameras.

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121452484#Comment_121452484

On any car I've driven if you put the foot down, you come to a resistance point and if you push the pedal past that you can override the limiter.

Boardnashea

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121452589#Comment_121452589

This would absolutely be a safety feature to be able to avoid a collision.

Oscar_Madison

Speed limiters are already fitted on many cars and can be overridden by pressing hard on the accelerator.

https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/news/driving-tech/mandatory-speed-limiters-set-for-uk-cars-can-be-overridden/#google_vignette

mickdw

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058325588/how-accurate-are-average-speed-cameras

There is no point debating this without the info.

You need both camera shots with times recorded thereon.

You could personally verify distance between cameras using one of the mapping softwares available.

You would then have your answer unless of course the time on both cameras is not in sync. That would result in everyone getting a fine though. It's not beyond possible that there was a short term issue with the clocks being out of sync.

ebbsy

I've been at 9 points, now back to 3, and guess what ?

It was nobodys fault except my own.

Red Silurian

If I was in your shoes and was 100% sure that you weren't speeding I would contest it. You could pay a solicitor a few quid to represent you or just take a couple of hours off work.

If you had any proof that you were not speeding, your own dashcam footage for example showing Junction 26 and Junction 27 in the same clip it should suffice. The junctions are a little over 14km apart so if you have a video of you doing this in more than ~7 minutes on that date you have solid evidence.

mickdw

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121452753#Comment_121452753

When you were on 9 points and no doubt being super aware so that you didnt get anymore points, if you got a letter to say you were speeding again and heading for a ban, would you challenge it or take the spell off the road?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121452717#Comment_121452717

I did not know that !

That may explain it. I have large feet in boots, so could have been pressing down on it.

Olympush

You could ask to see a calibration cert for the camera - if it’s more than 6 months since it was last calibrated, you may have a case.

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121453572#Comment_121453572

You did say you were overtaking a couple of folk - easily done then thinking you were still driving at 120 when in fact it was well over that - a pain I know - the good news is most insurance companies don’t care about 3 penalty points for speeding as long as you tell them it’s the thought of 3 years avoiding another 3 penalty points to make six which will make you even more cautious - I’m nearly finished my 3 year “sentence” 😀- it does focus the mind that bit more - I think you’re just unfortunate but just shows you need to be proactive regardless of what support technology you have.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121453580#Comment_121453580

There is no requirement for them to prove that speed cameras are working correctly. With average speed cameras calibration does not apply. They do not measure speed. they only measure the time that you passed both cameras and your speed is calculated from that.

https://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2010/act/25/section/81/enacted/en/html

monkeybutter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058325588/how-accurate-are-average-speed-cameras

1. Use GPS to verify limiter is working. Never seen a speedo to under read by 10kph
2. Request both pictures. You would need this if you happened to go to court. If they tally up..

They should be providing this on the FPN really. They can't expect you to turn up to court without having seen it.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121453627#Comment_121453627

If you can go over the limiter then yes, I could very well have gone above it. The overtaking not so much as both vehicles were going well below 100 !

I actually, naively, thought that the limiter stopped you from going over the set speed, so I may have been going over it without realising.

mikeecho

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121453580#Comment_121453580

Nope.

They don't have to prove that the device was calibrated or accurate, there is a presumption that it is accurate.

You can ask for the calibration cert , but it will be of feic all use.. anyway, they are all kept within calibration.. it's part of the contract from the supplier.

ebbsy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121453453#Comment_121453453

To be fair, a very good question.

Calahonda52

the distance is 13k

at 120 6.5 minutes

at 129 6.0465

so 27.2 seconds

looking further at the numbers, my guess is you were never under 120

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Miscreant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121456021#Comment_121456021

We don't do graduated speeding fines here. I would imagine that 120 in a 60 zone might be treated as dangerous driving and that is a whole different kettle of fish.

This has absolutely nothing to do with the OP though......

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I have my car back as of yesterday evening.

First thing I did was take it out to the motorway and test the speedo. It is actually out. I had both mine and my wife on sat nav and when I set the speedo to 120 the sat navs had me going 126

Kimbot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121456403#Comment_121456403

So if GPS is showing you do 126 then your speedo if correct should show around 130ish normally.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121456468#Comment_121456468

No, I think the speedo is showing less than what I am actually doing. Both satnavs on our phones had me at 126-127 on a stretch of motor way, and it was on cruise control with the limiter set at 120.

I rang them this morning and the garage said it might need to be re-calibrated.

Kimbot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121456489#Comment_121456489

yes thats what I meant, you speedo should have been reading 130+

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121456504#Comment_121456504

Oh sorry, yes it should have been.

The garage did say that to me that there is usually around 5KM less built in, so mine seems to be the other side , of course !!!