Huge 11pc increase in new rents raises fears landlords are breaking zone rules

HowMuchRent

From today's independent in Personal Finance section

RichardAnd

Rent pressure zones are just one more chapter in a very long list of things that states have tried to do to control prices. The long and short of it is that the demand is too high to keep prices down, regardless of the law. Until supply increases at a higher rate than demand (extremely unlikely), the pressure on rent will be upward.

GGTrek

The Irish govvie trying to empty the ocean with a spoon and many Irish people believing that it can be done!

RichardAnd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121439791#Comment_121439791

Well....if we vote in a party with a bigger spoon?

More seriously, I think that an increasing number of Irish people know precisely well that the state is the problem, not the solution.

Peter Flynt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121437623#Comment_121437623

"Regardless of the law" . . . . And people complain when the term 'Corrupt Kip' is used to describe Ireland.

RichardAnd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121439978#Comment_121439978

There have been many attempts to regulate prices of many things over centuries, and it rarely works, if ever. If there is a demand for something, and if there is cash available to pay more to get it, then some people will pay more. What one needs to understand is that something is worth what someone is willing to pay for it.

I'm not saying that this is a good thing, but it is the reality of the situation. There are too many people, two few places to rent and a hell of a lot of fiat currency funny-money floating about. The state cannot sign a law and change the realities of supply and demand when there is such a gap between the two.

babyducklings1

Read this today how difficult for renters. Do students have to pay these rent increases as well though I suppose if they get a grant it would help.

Marcusm

These are for “new” tenancies registered. You would have to have a split between rollover/resetting and genuinely new properties before you could tell whether this was landlords increasing rents illegally as opposed to skewed by new properties at higher rents, not uncommon for new properties to be better fitted/appointed and thus attract higher rents.

themoone

@Marcusm Exactly, the headline is as usual misleading, this is for New tenancies that dont fall under the RPZ. If it was true not clickbaite then the RTB would have prosecuted all these horrible landlords and made a field day of it however as it is for New tenancies it is perfectly legal. It is not the first time the media makes these misleading claims.

Del2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121439978#Comment_121439978

While there is a bit of corruption Ireland is not a corrupt country.

There has been a massive increase in build to rent properties that have come online in the last year or so and they are where the increase is coming from, the professional landlords that everyone wanted in the rental market.

This is the end result of government interference in the rental market where small/accidental landlords have fled the market and professional landlords have taken over. Professional landlords will increase rent at every opportunity, small landlords where usually happy to increase rent on new tenancies.

Mr. teddywinkles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121440618#Comment_121440618

Ya might be a little bit naive about the corruption part there.

jface187

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121440599#Comment_121440599

Yes because every illegal thing is always caught and bad people go to jail every time.

SharkMX

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121439978#Comment_121439978

More like "Because of the law"

RichardAnd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121440618#Comment_121440618

Ireland is not objectively a corrupt country when compared to what's out there. In some parts of the world, corrupt politicians or bureaucrats will openly steal money from the exchequer of their countries quite openly, becomes involved in organised crime or openly break the law. That doesn't happen here.

What happens here and in the West at large is corruption within the law. The days of taking a back-hander are over. These days, it's much more sensible to invest in a commodity or stock and then put forward or back legislation that will make it grow. At this isn't really illegal, it's not something that can easily be stopped. Perhaps all politicians and senior civil servants should be prohibited from investing in sectors related to their area of work or at least be forced to publish the details of their personal investments.

Another issue is civil servants or politicians using Ireland to propel themselves into a bigger seat in Europe or some NGO by adopting ruinous globalisation policies, but that's its own subject.

LambshankRedemption

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121440410#Comment_121440410

I used to live in Cherrywood, and just after I moved out I was looking at Daft, and saw the place I had rented listed for 8% more than I had been paying. However the bigger shock was that the newly built studios in the complex were going for more than my old 2 bedroom. Identical decor, down to the chrome lightswitches. 2100 for a studio. Madness.

chrisd2019

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058325107/huge-11pc-increase-in-new-rents-raises-fears-landlords-are-breaking-zone-rules

Inflation effects all areas of life folks, not just groceries, fuel and energy!

alias no.9

The RPZ rules punished landlords who hadn't been maximizing rents at every opportunity and punished them in perpetuity, in fact any landlord who doesn't continue to maximise rent continues to be punished into the future. Who could possibly have foreseen that the net effect of this would be to squeeze the more reasonably priced stock out of the market?

Where 2 identical neighbouring properties have their rent controlled at different prices, the owner of the property locked into the lower rate will question their continued operation in the market.

SharkMX

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121441045#Comment_121441045

Seen that when we got to view an apartment a few weeks go.

Walked in and the estate agent showed us an immaculate 1 bed apartment for €1455. Then he walked us down one floor and showed us an identical, right down to the cutlery in the drawer, apartment and the rent was €2350.

I asked why and the agent just said - "RTB rules. We have another one exactly the same coming on stream in Feb and its going to be €2500". He said he couldnt talk to anyone about that Feb one until its actually on the market in Feb. Needless to say we are still looking. Everyone and his dog was going for the one that was €1455 and we couldnt afford the other one. They were identical apart from the price.

RichardAnd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121441133#Comment_121441133

Yet more chaos caused by the lunatics who run this country.

SharkMX

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121441158#Comment_121441158

Nice for the person who gets the low rent, but an ongoing nightmare for everyone else.

monkeybutter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121437623#Comment_121437623

when the measures you bring in amount to nothing more than a box ticking exercise then of course they have only a small effect

it has had an effect on some, those who are willing to play by the rules, those who had already up the rent to a high level prior to this also

those who didn't are perhaps hard done by

no different to any other rules laws etc

there for those who will obey them

SharkMX

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121441270#Comment_121441270

My own opinion is that the vast majority of landlords are obeying the rules. But its the rules that are causing rent and house prices to rise dramatically. The ones who the rules are hurting are getting out altogether. So the cheaper properties are working their way out of the market altogether.

Its not like this hasnt been seen everywhere there were rent controls brought in in other countries before we did it. There are big problems when governments pander to populism because they are afraid of losing their vote. This is one.

RichardAnd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121441270#Comment_121441270

Probably they are obeying them, but as mentioned above, prices will go up elsewhere to make up the difference. As I said earlier, RPZs are an attempt to regulate away reality, and that's not going to work. One may as well try to staple to leaves of a tree back on to prevent the onset of winter.

monkeybutter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121441306#Comment_121441306

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121441343#Comment_121441343

some people are obeying

some aren't

the irish government cannot bring in legislation without loopholes

they do it on purpose

of course build build build is the solution. they intentionally didn't do this when they had the chance and that is still the position

Rent controls in other countries suffer the similar same intentional loopholes

this is why they fail

There is nothing wrong with having some controls when the rental market is hot and some incentives when it aint

SharkMX

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121441398#Comment_121441398

Ok, would you say that some people not obeying RTB rules are the reason for the high rents, or would the you say the RTB rules themselves are the reason for the high rents?

If we never had all these changes to legislation, would the property crisis be as bad?

RichardAnd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121441398#Comment_121441398

I'm sure that there are loopholes. However, even if the regulations did hold rents steady, they still would not solve the issues of supply and demand. There would still be too many people chasing too few places to live. Indeed, in such a scenario people would probably just hand over cash payments to landlords under the table to "out bid" other people. For all we know, that is already happening.

Rent controls will not help the housing crisis. They exist merely to give voters the impression that the people who run the state are doing something to help and that they care. They are not helping, and they do not care.

monkeybutter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121441446#Comment_121441446

combination

not obeying it, not come back

loopholes, a lot of what is being rented is new to the market, the existing market is stagnent

people switching on back of being forced to by sales etc

given how fast it increased prior to this, yes it would be worse

monkeybutter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121441449#Comment_121441449

the issue with not enough places is homelessness

if everyone follows the rules you cannot outbid someone, this is not a solution to the above

under the tables money is not going to make it into the above figures

neither is the off grid rental section which is quite large

this is not a solution to a problem

what is detailed in the above is that it is not holding rent steady, its short on any details as to why

could be driving new rents sky high

this is 11pc on new rents, not all rents

you might have say 25% turnover in the rental market on a year, could be higher

this is much lower at the moment

so new rents

RichardAnd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121441528#Comment_121441528

I'm not entirely sure what you're saying here, but rents are climbing because, once again, there are too many people chasing too few places to stay. There isn't a lot more to say about it.

Fred Cryton

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058325107/huge-11pc-increase-in-new-rents-raises-fears-landlords-are-breaking-zone-rules

I think there's different things happening between the upper end and middle range of the market. At the upper end I am seeing it taking much longer to rent a new apartment in the city centre, and rents have to come down at least 10% to actually get a tenant compared with last year. From what I'm hearing it's due to tech layoffs, and WFH meaning firms don't need to bring as many tech workers into Dublin.

On the other side you still have landlords selling up, but that's more likely to impact the middle section of the market (where most Irish people rent). That's probably where there's been an increase.

herbalplants

Colleagues of mine used to rent in Dublin with their family, now few of them have bought houses in places like Carlow, Port Lapis, etc. Their old rentals are now up for sale.

Their is a shift in the rental market due to WFH.

RichardAnd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121443900#Comment_121443900

Well I hear a LOT of Dublin accents down here in Wexford.