3 Siblings and a Will

Dan Steely

One left house and small amount of cash. One left a much larger amount of cash, but less than the value of the house. Third not included in will, was supported financially while testator was alive.

Siblings 2 & 3 say the right thing to do is for 1 to sell the house and divide proceeds equally. I know rights are rights and the wishes of the deceased are down in black and white but has anyone heard of this sort of thing?

Conversation hasn't gotten round to the cash.

dulpit

You'd hear stories like this whenever they do wills and probate on the radio. It's possible that it can be contested, so probably best to go to a solicitor here. But siblings 2 & 3 asking for sibling 1 to sell and divide house is just a request. Unless they go down the route of legal action, no obligations...

magicbastarder

AFAIK, there would be CGT to be paid on that which might not otherwise be liable based on the will being followed to the letter.

sibling 1 may have inhertited the house and cash without incurring inheritance tax. but once they sell the house and split the proceeds, siblings 2 and 3 will be liable for CGT on it. anything over €32,500 will be liable for CGT (and on the assumption it includes the sale of a house, i suspect it will easily meet that threshhold)

Dan Steely

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121423812#Comment_121423812

Didn't think about the excluded sibling contesting as they were well looked after previously but when it comes to money I suppose it's possible. I was wondering if it's a done thing sometimes for benefactors to disregard the will and divvy things up equally.

Dan Steely

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121423831#Comment_121423831

I read a parent/child relationship had a cgt limit of 330k.

Dan Steely

I was wondering about the family dynamic of the whole thing and if it could it be expected to do an equal division, despite what's in the will.

Edit: and the best way to deal with being asked by family to do this?

Sheedy234

The deceased person make a will for a reason and these are there wishes and should be respected.

HildaOgdenx

Mod - Moved to Legal Discussion.

Local charter now applies.

Daniel son

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121423910#Comment_121423910

They're dead.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121423944#Comment_121423944

Doesnt mean their wishes should be ignored. Otherwise, what was the point of them making a will?

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121423853#Comment_121423853

the situation i was referring to was where sibling 1 inherits the house and then sells it.

the CGT limit from parent to child applies if the house is left to all three children equally.

kabakuyu

I refused a bequest many years ago from my sister,it might have caused problems with her family whom she had fallen out with before she died, she was not of sound mind IMO and was leaving me house to spite them.

I got on well with her family and did not come under any pressure from them, I knew it was the right thing to do.

Sheedy234

Yes unfortunately the person is dead and left a will stating exactly what was to happen !! That the purpose of a will.

Dan Steely

I wasn't really thinking about the legal aspects more is it usual or unusual for those who got less to expect those who got more to hand over cash to make things more equitable? Despite what the will says.

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121423831#Comment_121423831

You are confusing CAT and CGT.

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121423853#Comment_121423853

CAT

Gift and Inheritance Tax (Capital Acquisitions Tax – CAT)

1. Overview
2. What do you pay CAT on?
3. What do you not pay CAT on?
4. How do you calculate CAT?
5. How and when do you pay and file?
6. What charges are there for late filing?
7. Adverse possession
8. Powers of revocation

https://www.revenue.ie/en/gains-gifts-and-inheritance/gift-and-inheritance-tax-cat/index.aspx

CAT and CGT are different taxes.

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121423944#Comment_121423944

The executor must respect the requests of the deceased, expressed in the will.

Riskymove

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121424448#Comment_121424448

Is the question that the others think Sibling 1 should sell the house after he inherits it and share proceeds?

if so I think the issue will be the taxation that applies to sibling 2 and 3 as they are not inheriting the house/money

Geuze

After sibling 1 inherits the house, they are of course free to sell it, and do what they like with the proceeds.

Possible tax implications:

(1) sibling 1 may owe CAT on inheritance

(2) If the house value increases between inheritance and subsequent sale, sibling 1 may owe CGT on sale

(3) siblings 2 and 3 may owe CAT if they receive proceeds of sale of house

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121424401#Comment_121424401

would there be any difference in the conclusions i drew?

CrazyEric

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121424048#Comment_121424048

Equitable for who? The third sibling was looked after during the Testators lifetime which was taken into account. The second sibling wants to keep what they got but get a share of what the first sibling got. I would think this is normal only where the siblings are greedy ungrateful B**%$^*

I would be telling them to go whistle.

wildwillow

The third sibling could claim a share as he was looked after during the parent’s lifetime and so expects same to continue. Someone more knowledgeable than me will know the exact circumstances.

Madd002

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058324663/3-siblings-and-a-will

Posters read again he's not asking about tax implications.

My take on it would be

A.sibling 1 left house & small cash amount Say worth 250k altogether

B. sibling 2 left large amount of cash but less than above say 200k

C. sibling 3 Nada cause he's a freeloader and used up all his inheritance by his parents supporting him for years. Which leaves the answer that Sibling 3's parents excluded him for a reason, if he was left cash they knew he'd go through it fairly quick and if left house he'd sell and again go through cash quick.

You do NOT have to do anything as Sibling 1 may wish to live in family home. Sibling 2 was left a good bit and should not side with Sibling 3 for an extra few quid.

Sibling 3 get out and support yourself and don't create a family rift cause your siblings were responsible and respect your parents wishes time to stand on your own 2 feet and make them proud instead of creating a legal battle.

Dial Hard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121423970#Comment_121423970

I'll never understand this "logic" of 'Let's reward the person who never got up off their hole completely disproportionately by leaving them the house'. It's utterly bizarre to me.

I've got four siblings. Three are homeowners. I'm a long-term renter, temporarily back at home but hoping to get the hell back out ASAP. One has been back living at home for years and isn't really showing any signs of ever moving out. Has a good job, etc, just very comfy there. My parents have been crystal clear with us that both wills state that the entire estate is to be split evenly 5 ways once both parents are dead. It wouldn't have crossed anyone's mind in a fit - neither my parents nor any of us - that the stay-at-home sibling should get the house just so they have "the security of a roof over their head". Bananas concept, imo.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121425529#Comment_121425529

I have a sibling who is not exactly well set up, the rest of us are OK. Personally I wouldn't object if this sibling was 'looked after' in any will, to the detriment of the rest of us. That's what families are for, isn't it?

Dan Steely

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121425280#Comment_121425280

Pretty much.

The thread started out in Personal Issues but got moved to Legal Issues so there was a few posts about tax and contesting the will which were appreciated.

I was wondering whether it was unusual for one to ask for some of what the other got, to level things up, and how to best avoid a row if/when saying no.

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121425746#Comment_121425746

It would depend on the circumstances as to why to other sibling is getting looked after.

Hard worker. Taken to the cleaners by their partner after years of marriage...no problem. Have my share.

Lazy b0llix who freeloaded their whole life...GTFO I would say.

You don't help people by giving them a free ride.

TooTired123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058324663/3-siblings-and-a-will

My uncle (unmarried) left his estate to his 5 siblings (all aged 70+) thus:

€10000 left to one sister the rest (€100000) to be divided amongst the other 4.

The other 4 decided they weren’t happy that the one sister was losing out.

Went back to the solicitor dealing with the will.

Each of the 4 got a legal document to sign foregoing their €25000 and accepting €22000 instead (and awarding her €22000 too).

One of the siblings tried to change their mind “we should have respected his wishes” afterwards but was quite correctly ignored.

It’s really not worth getting into a row in your old age over a few grand.

CrazyEric

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121426104#Comment_121426104

It isn't unusual for one to try it on but it would be unusual for the first sibling to hand over anything. If the example that Madd002 used .....

"A. Sibling 1 left house & small cash amount Say worth 250k altogether

B. sibling 2 left large amount of cash but less than above say 200k

C. sibling 3 Nada cause he's a freeloader and used up all his inheritance by his parents supporting him for years. Which leaves the answer that Sibling 3's parents excluded him for a reason, if he was left cash they knew he'd go through it fairly quick and if left house he'd sell and again go through cash quick."

.....is similar to what is happening and you are trying to avoid a row, I would be saying to Sibling 2, throw everything in the pot, €450,000 and divide it 3 ways...... Sibling 2 will not be long changing their tune when they are going to be worse off instead of getting a share of the house.

Claw Hammer

it is not unusual for there to be a deed of family arrangement to vary the terms of a will. Sometimes it is in the interests of clarity. Sometimes it is to avoid a court case, sometimes it is to rectify an injustice. All of the beneficiaries must agree to do it and it is best to get legal and taxation advice before any of the assets of the estate are distributed.

Hotblack Desiato

delete

I'll start up my own thread on the scenario I had in mind.