Replace oil heating

suvigirl

I am buying a house in Dublin which has oil heating. I would like to change it, but don't even know what I should be looking for. Presumably there is gas mains, it's in Dublin and about 40 years old. Someone said if I get gas with a combi boiler (whatever that is) that I won't have the water tank in the hot press? Which sounds great.

I looked into those new heat pumps but I'm not willing to do all the insulating that is required.

So, what do I need to ask for? And who do I ask!

totally clueless.

Lenar3556

Approaching a couple of heating contractors might be a good start.

You can get a combi boiler in oil too. Indoor and outdoor options.

Sleeper12

Heat pumps aren't a good solution for every home. Even with all the insulation done it really only makes sense if someone is in the home most of the day because heat pump stays on 24/7. Not economical if you only require heat for a few hours in the evening.

Combi boiler in oil will suit you better than gas. Gas combi have an average life span of only 10 years.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058324316/replace-oil-heating

Go to gas. What location is the current oil boiler?

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121467512#Comment_121467512

Its out in the shed

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121467884#Comment_121467884

Ok I used to live in a house in Dublin with an oil boiler, the pipe came up to the side of house and then straight up into the attic.

Then from attic if flowed down into the house the water

The options was to try run gas to the back of the house and put the boiler on the back wall, this would of meant huge work internally.

Or run the gas straight up into the attic and install the boiler in the attic. THis is what I done. Was a lot easier install and worked perfect. Im sure someone will say you shouldn't have in attic for XYZ reason.

Water John

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121467474#Comment_121467474

Not true that heat pumps need to be on 24/7. A pick in the morning to get the house up and on again in the evening. If you're looking to future proof and can afford it, way to go. Look at the options on heat pump grant aid here:

https://www.seai.ie/grants/home-energy-grants/

suvigirl

Have been doing some reading, does anyone have any experience with electric radiators and solar panels.

?Cee?view

Why are you replacing the oil heating? Is there something wrong with it? If you need a new boiler would it not be cheapest to replace like with like?

Calahonda52

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121467954#Comment_121467954

snake oil

max elec demand at night in winter when there is SFA PV

Min elec demand in mid summer at 13:00, max PV

go figure

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121467971#Comment_121467971

Because I don't want oil really, it's expensive, it can run out, the boiler smells.

Just looking into options

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121467995#Comment_121467995

But does whatever electric is generated not go back to the grid or something? Reducing electric bills?

I dunno, trying to figure all this out!

?Cee?view

Fair enough. A properly set up modern boiler shouldn’t smell and overall the cost will likely be way less than retrofitting any new type of system.

Heiser

Get solar to keep your electricity bill down but it won't help with heating your house. Solar output is poor in winter when you most want to heat your house.

If costs are your main concern, id leave your oil burner alone until it stops working. It'll cost you thousands to get gas in and it'll be a very long time before you make the money back, if ever. Gas is fairly expensive as well right now.

I'd keep the boiler and instead get solar panels in, maybe a stove, insulate the attic etc which would be far more cost effective and make for a more comfortable home

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121468068#Comment_121468068

I really want to get a wood burner/stove in. It's a dormer and I like having internal doors open.

I don't like a very hot house and I know I'll only have heating on for very minimal amount of time.

Maybe leaving the oil might be the best idea

mikeecho

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121468098#Comment_121468098

Depending on what type of oil boiler you have, it might be worthwhile upgrading to a condensing oil boiler.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121468098#Comment_121468098

Ok

On the electric heaters don't water your time. You will end up ripping them out in a few years as they will cost a fortune.

Solar will reduce the electricity but only during the summer when you don't need heat. So during the winter you will be burning electricity all the time, I have solar and 20 panels at the moment and it doesn't even take the base load off the house.

During the summer the excess will go back into the grid and you get FiT(Feed in tariff) but I would keep that separate to the heating system.

A wood burning stove would require a back boiler in the house to heat the rest of the house. Now again the house I had I installed an insert into the sitting room. The room would end up like an oven and even with door opened it wouldn't really flow around the house.

if the boiler is working and in good condition I would leave as is, get a good service. Is it a condenser boiler or standard?

suvigirl

I believe it's standard? There's a bit water tank/immersion tank thing in the cupboard. Is it a condensing boiler that does away with that?

mikeecho

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121468292#Comment_121468292

No, a condensing boiler just operates more efficiently.

You'll still have an immersion tank.

Depending how the house is plumbed, it's possible to have zones of heating with the boiler

Upstairs, downstairs, water.

Tippbhoy1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121468292#Comment_121468292

It’s the combi boiler that does away with that, not a condensing boiler. Hot water tank has benefits so I would suggest not removing this unless there is a good reason eg age, standard etc

If you’re buying a house is there other stuff to do to the house. The level of upheaval needed elsewhere may make a more substantial change easier. If you’re going gas you’ll need a line and a meter run in from the road which is about 1400€, then the pipes ran into the house by an RGI, then the install of the boiler, and hooking up all pipe work. Depending on accessibility to pipe work etc it would probably still stay in the boiler house. I wouldn’t see a combo boiler being ran from outside but maybe some do. That could be maybe 1500€ for the boiler and the cost of the install…another 1k? So all in 4k maybe on a good day.

If it’s just what to do with current heating system, and it works ok, I would say nothing. Just get it serviced and keep the tank full. Unless you’ve money to literally burn.

waterwelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121468240#Comment_121468240

I'm reading a bit about air to air heat pumps. Could become more popular in future years as oil / gas heating gets priced out.

Air to Air seems to be retrofittable relatively cheaply.

I'd agree with your last paragraph. Use the existing system as long as possible and see where technology / energy prices are in a few years.

Ideally reduced electricity prices based mostly on wind / solar will mean electric heating via technological advances is a no brainer.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121468423#Comment_121468423

Wind for home use at the moment is impossible, especially in Dublin. Solar won't be able to provide at the time when you need it

I like the look of A2A myself because I have a house which is oil fired now and a A2W would be difficult. But not sure the technology is advanced enough yet but I could be totally wrong on that. It was a topic I was going to raise.

waterwelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121468953#Comment_121468953

Wind from the grid is what I am referring to.

If the offshore wind projects deliver then that 'should' result in cheaper electric long term, making A2A a good choice.

It seems relatively easy to fit into older houses.

Sit tight and see how the technology unfolds I suppose.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121468993#Comment_121468993

Ahh ok, sorry I would love to be able to put wind on house to bump up solar so always think like that :-)

Sleeper12

Just to clarify that heat pumps are designed to be on 24/7. Turning them off at night allows the water in the rads to go cold. It can take a day to bring rooms back up to temperature. They aren't like gas or oil boilers that reach high temperature and heat quickly. Heat pumps are very cost efficient at bringing a home up to temperature. They can be very efficient at keeping the temperature once it reaches desired temperature.

https://ecoplus.ie/why-heat-pumps-run-constantly/

Just to add my own current solution. We have 8 solar panels, South facing, installed in June. As has been said it's great in the Summer, alright in the Autumn (and I expect Spring) and not great in the Winter. Well worth doing though. We added batteries and even now in Dec if we get a day of 3 or 4 bright hours the batteries are filled up to 5kwh, enough to cook and use an infrared panel heater in the living room in the evening. After that we use a very old oil boiler for an hour to heat water and the whole house, and another hour during the night. Same as yourself, we'll have to find a solution to replace the oil eventually. There really is no substitute for heating the whole house in our climate. I'm thinking of just using the oil boiler until it's done, and hopefully by then maybe electric boilers will be more viable.

One other thing about the solar, it's amazing how much saving you can make when you don't put all the big electric using appliances on at the same time, or wait until its sunny, etc.

I suppose what I'm saying is, look at solar, keep the oil until it's done and tech has moved on.

Calahonda52

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121468015#Comment_121468015

you put elec heating in the equation so my reply

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121469231#Comment_121469231

Honestly if the oil boiler is really old I would pick up a second hand one from adverts/done deal and install it. You will get good quality ones cheap and if you don't have a condesor boiler already it will pay for itself in a winter

Heiser

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121471162#Comment_121471162

There's no way changing to a condenser boiler would pay for itself in a winter or even in multiple winters

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121472446#Comment_121472446

You will pick up one for about 200 second hand and isn’t it 70% efficiency v high 90%?

Wearb

It would be a very old boiler that would have only 70% efficiency, more like 80+. In practice the difference between a 25/30 year old boiler and a newer condensing boiler is about 8%. That's partially because condensing boilers don't run in condensing mode all the time. However even in non condensing mode they are still more efficient than a standard eff boiler.

I wouldn't fit a secondhand condensing boiler no matter how much I was paid. It could all easily end in tears and no warranty to fall back on.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121472571#Comment_121472571

Last time it was checked it was 85%, quite good given that it's 35, I expect being serviced regularly helped a lot.

Wearb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121473235#Comment_121473235

You are most likely talking about combustion efficiency, whis is only part of what it takes to produce a seasonal efficiency figure.

In other words you could have a boiler with 85% combustion efficiency but only 70% seasonal efficiency or a better design might produce 80% seasonal for 85% combustion efficiency.

The seasonal efficiency is used to describe the amount of energy that the boiler consumes, that is transferred to usefully heating the house and hotwater.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121472829#Comment_121472829

I know plenty of people who have and have zero issues. Trying to install a A2W pump instead into older houses just ends up with huge bills and the person trying to rip it out before they are bankrupt

Of course if you are looking long term at oil just put in a new one

Does solar save you much on the electric bill during the summer so that people might feel more at ease using more electricity during the winter for heating?

tikka16751

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121488478#Comment_121488478

You need to pay yourself back your initial investment of installing pv first before you mention saving money.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121488478#Comment_121488478

You need a TCO analysis on Solar PV. A lot of people seem to jump this step and then complain when they don't get the results. The installation companies will provide a more rosy picture that you might end up getting

Plenty of good news stories around but also plenty of horror stories of people installing over priced systems and then not able to get close to the estimated savings.

For the investment you are looking at at least 4-5 years before you have the investment paid for, that is what I am looking at. Based on the panels lasting 20 years then it makes sense. To me anyway.

I still won't be burning extra electricity because I am saving during the summer months

Like anything you need to massively research and get at least 3 quotes. A company has set themselves up now to get multiple qutes from solar providers so you can go to them with your requirements and they should be able to give you a close to X price from lots of vendors. Makes it easier.

Water John

If you can get a good recommendation on a supplier at a reasonable price, I tend to go with that on jobs.

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121468423#Comment_121468423

Reduced retail electricity prices due to increasing amounts of renewable energy is a myth and a lie used to sell the public on the idea. Over the last 12 years, prices have incresed 54%, while every one of those years has seen an increase in the amount of renewable energy capacity installed. Ireland has the third most expensive electricity in the EU. If someone is benefiting from reduced prices due to cheaper wind generated energy, it sure isn't the consumer.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121488478#Comment_121488478

I estimate (and it is an estimate cos I've only had solar since June) that it will take around 10 years to recoup the money spent.

That's based on bills being reduced from c. £800 pa to c. £400 and receiving c. £200 pa for selling back to the grid. Thats a bit pessimistic, it might be better than that in reality. Bear in mind this is in the North, so UK rates of selling. We're also using more electric heating from the battery at this time of year and hence less oil heating, so there'll be a saving there, but its hard to quantify until this time next year to see just how much oil I've used.

I had been looking at solar for the best part of 20 years, but never had the money for it, so I made the choice that I was borrowing against my future self, pay the lump sum now, recoup it over 10 years, then after that benefit from it in a big way.

tbh being able to see what we use and when (ie graphically on the app) has been huge for saving too, for example "it costs how much to put on the electric shower in Winter ? Right lets just use the water thats already been heated by the oil then" or "Right no more kettle and shower and washing machine on at the same time", that sort of thing.

TheSunIsShining

So a straight up question so - what is the best alternative to oil or gas? Isn't there a murmur that you won't be allowed replaced gas or oil with a new gas or oil at some point - so what do all of us who live in pre 2012 houses do? What, in reality, are the actual options because I'm seeing/hearing countless bad news stories from people switching to heat pumps who are in older houses.

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121490393#Comment_121490393

The same alternative Eamon Ryanair used to get to COP28, and unfortunately will use to get back. In other words, there isn't one.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121490393#Comment_121490393

For new builds it will be 2025 but very few are putting in oil now anyway

I dont see a date for existing oil boilers but in UK it is 2035, we will be probably similar

Now will they replace oil with HVO?

Or will they allow for hybrid oil boiler with a heat pump. Who knows but at the moment for older houses a heat pump is not an option without significant increases in insulation

TheSunIsShining

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121490876#Comment_121490876

Is it the same for gas boilers so? Not allowed in new builds from 25 and will be banned in existing builds in the future? Isn't a boilers that can be powered by hydrogen on the horizon?

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121491051#Comment_121491051

No idea on gas, seeing as gas is part of the 2030 proposal for electricity generation and the links to UK I expected gas would be going forward a source for heat

Isn't calour using renewable gas now for homes?

TheSunIsShining

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121491542#Comment_121491542

Was thinking the same myself. Gas is, as I understand it, part of future electricity planning so difficult to buy into being banned in homes! Never mind the reality that people use it to cook.....

tikka16751

When the country goes bang next year and enters a depression it will be back to the bog and cutting turf.

Water John

An amount of the gas that will be used in the future will be from renewable sources, in the form of anaerobic digestion plants with scrubbed gas being injected into the mains at various points in the country. I would expect another upgrade scheme will need to be devised so that people with older high BER properties, and not the capital, will be able to significantly upgrade the insulation and sealing. Thus the switch to heat pump becomes possible. This is the direction the country is going in, so it's better to go for the ride, whatever your motives, than raging against it.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121492787#Comment_121492787

The trouble is, those of us of a certain vintage have been told throughout the previous decades that many items must be bought now because they are so good for the environment compared to the thing that we are using now. It would be positively Evil to continue using the offensive thing we have. These include diesel, lead-free petrol, oil boilers, gas boilers and wood burning stoves and probably a few others that I can't remember - all of which have been since placed in the Evil pile. The current must-haves are EVs and heat-pumps. I firmly expect both of those to be discarded at some point in the next decade as somebody finds something new and shiny to sell. Not a climate change denier btw, I just don't like the argument "we must do something, this is something therefore we must do it".