Why no late cafes in Dublin or Ireland in general?

lisasimpson

A tribes on Cork was a great spot

JVince

1 - it is not the norm in Europe. (Paris probably the only city). I never understand when that statement is made.

2 - there's no market for it. If there was, they'd be open.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121416982#Comment_121416982

Where in Europe ?

I think you are confusing what they call a bar with a cafe.

apache

You's will never sleep at night if you want to drink coffee that late. I wouldn't have thought there's a market for it.

bodhrandude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121415533#Comment_121415533

There was also another late cafe on Dominic St, Galway over a decade ago called Banana Phoblacht which always used to have a great vibe and I remember another that used to be in Woodquay called O'Shakespeare's I think that used to have late music and trad sessions in it.

igCorcaigh

I think there would definitely be a market for a late night venue that is alcohol free, or mainly so.

Coffee, 0% beers, food, maybe some down tempo live music or stage performance.

humberklog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121420475#Comment_121420475

Well there was one in Dublin that closed recently. The Virgin Mary.

It was around for about 4 years. It's going on-line where they'll now organise pop-up events.

Speedsie

The Coffee Inn on South Anne St and Bewley's Grafton St or George's St were my go to late night frothy coffee spot when a student in the early 90s.

@1874 the Bewley's on Westmorland St opened in the late 1800s, not sure what was there before, the Grafton St branch was a late comer in the 1920s.

Gig's place on Richmond St and the Manhattan on Harcourt Rd for even later shenannigans! Both long gone now, and the Manhattan site is looking particularly grim.

callaway92

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121420475#Comment_121420475

There’s a market to an extent but would people spend the money?

Perhaps for the type of venue you’re mentioning it could be something like pay an entry fee being necessary - people ain’t gonna be buying more than 1 coffee at a stage performance. While the idea is nice it’s hard to see a stream of money being spent.

igCorcaigh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121421089#Comment_121421089

It would have to draw a night crowd I suppose. Similar to how cafes operate in the day, which could be feasible in the right area? Especially when there are little or no other options. Not everyone likes the pub buzz.

rolling boh

Sure didn't the alcohol free bar open and then closed quick enough in Dublin .As has been said it's a nice idea but just not viable here at least .

Turquoise Hexagon Sun

Yeah, it's a pity we don't. So much Irish culture is about drinking pints. Don't get me wrong, I love pints but I'd also love a nice cosy nighttime cafe I can got to and enjoy a tea and relax after a film. Or just get out midweek and not be tempted to have a drink or have a hangover.

It's just another thing we're a bit backward on - like building higher than 5 stories, standing on one side of the escalator to let people in a rush pass etc :P

JVince

The issue with a "speciality" bar/cafe/restaurant is that you need it to attract most members of a group.

Hence very few vegetarian restaurants, no non-alcoholic bars and almost no late night cafes.

MarkY91

You can go Tova pub without having alcohol you know...

Turquoise Hexagon Sun

Yeah, but it's nice to be able to go to a space indoors, enjoy a drink and a chat and not be around inebriated people. Late cafes should be compared with late places to eat food, not pubs. Again, this is the Irish mentality stuck on drinking/pubs.

If there was an established place, I'm sure it could do business during the day - they could sell some food. There are plenty of people in the country that would frequent a cafe later.

The problem with alcohol-free pubs is that it's trying to be something it's not. The part of the charm that has us all going back to a pub is...wait for it shocker: Alcohol! Take that out the equation and what do you have?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121422339#Comment_121422339

No, there's just less vegetarians. If you walk around any Irish city its choc full of coffee places There are thousands upon thousands of coffee/tea and snack eaters. In Dublin, there are about 4 Starbucks in about a 600m radius of each other. It's not a niche thing. It's just opening hours. If some opened until 22:00, then you'd have something.

I think some people might be getting confused with "late cafes" - like most of them close around 18:00 - that's so early. Meeting a friend in the city centre and it's either a restaurant or pub. Well, I don't want food and I don't want to got to the pub just once in a week. Nope, nothing.

We're not talking about building more cafes. There's enough cafes just none of them open late.

iniscealtra

I go out 6-8 generally, Have a tea or a 0% beer in the restaurant or pub. Rarely go out late anymore. When i do I just choose the venue well. A pub with no telly generally or a pub with a session or live music. You can still go out and not be around people who are hammered if thats what you want.

ghostfacekilla

There's definitely a few factors in play, and then the unknown. I used to enjoy the place Accents, and it always seemed jammers but maybe that was a weekend thing in the later hours of operating, and it was a covid casualty I believe. There was also the 24hr Starbucks on the green, which also was very busy at night. The only real option, albeit a terrible one is gay spar, on Dame St and it's where I frequent on the rare trips back to Ireland in the later hours. Lots of chaotic people watching, drunk patrons, and mediocre offerings regarding food and drink. It's not peaceful, or comfortable. What are the challenges to a prospective night time Dublin based cafe owner? From my experience, I don't think it would be a customer base, as Accents and the 24hr Starbucks seemed fine, in that regard. I imagine it's the same challenges as the daytime cafe owner. Rents, and insurance. I believe that Dublin has enough shift workers, ethic population where late cafes are the norm, delivery drivers, non-drinkers etc to make a place viable. Perhaps it needs to be off the beaten track a little, where there is lower rent. I remember the Starbucks had security, which is more salaries and perhaps there would be a challenge in finding long term staff. It would be good to hear from the former staff or owners of Accents to find out what their experience of the challenges were, and what they would suggest to someone setting up a new option in the late night cafe world to do differently.

whisky_galore

Can't get staff for a "regular" cafe and getting harder for a non chain, non mass market cafe to remain viable, let alone a speciality one. Who really wants to wait on customers all night for a pittance?

Flaneur OBrien

I used to work in Cafe Mocha in Dublin, open til 4am, maybe that was just the weekends though. Great craic, and busy enough. I think the demographics have changed though. Monday used to be a great night to go out with Strictly Handbag in RiRa, and it was only Tues/Wed that would be quiet. I think we’d close at midnight those days.

The sandwiches there were gorgeous, and a great option away from abrakebabra!

bodhrandude

Wine bars can have that kind of café atmosphere, the legendary Nimmo's at the Spanish Arch was a great place in the 90s, nice coffee, the wine a bit dodgy but a change from a pub if you like. I used to do paid trad sessions at the place and often another session would start in the far corner maybe Sharon Shannon and Donal Lunny having a tune. 😀

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121419693#Comment_121419693

I think it's the kind of cafe/bar that they have on the continent. Sells coffee and lower strength alcoholic beverages.

Peregrinus

This being Ireland, I suspect that late-night cafe-bars would do a lively trade in pots of tea.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121427085#Comment_121427085

There's nothing lower strength about those. Pretty much all sell spirits

Beechwoodspark

I spent some time working in Central Europe - Austria, Germany, Czech.

The locals sit for hours in brightly lit coffee shops, often historical buildings, with coffee and slices of cake.

Once the novelty wore off I found the coffee shops boring dry places but civilised.

There is no “pub culture” to any great extent there.

Paddy and Bridie Irishman doesn’t “do” cafes - certainly not in the evening - prefers pints in a pub.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121420475#Comment_121420475

Brewdog tried in London and it couldn't even work there.

My friend works for a non alcoholic brewery in London and even they wouldn't risk tanking the pub by being non alc only.

Problem is these days it's perfectly acceptable to drink something non alcoholic late on in a pub so you are really limiting yourself because no non drinker is gonna want to upset the group by going somewhere that only suits them to the detriment of the rest. Regional gay bars had a very similar problem once it became okay to shift your boyfriend in a regular pub.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121427136#Comment_121427136

Could you get a beer in these cafes if you wanted one ? Pretty certain you could.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121422737#Comment_121422737

Are you joking. Independent cafes are absolutely booming in Ireland.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121427164#Comment_121427164

You'd get beer, wine, aperitifs, whiskey in most of them

They don't have pub culture as they don't restrict drink sales to pubs

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121427170#Comment_121427170

Very few places in Europe have what we call "the pub culture". Those places are not pubs but they are also not what we would call a cafe which is why people like the OP and yourself mistakingly believe Europe is "full of" late night cafes. Calling them a cafe is like calling a tapas bar a restaurant.

daheff

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121408590#Comment_121408590

fairly sure weather plays a big part in that here. we don't get consistent enough good, dry warm weather in summer months to make it worthwhile for cafes/restuarants to invest in this.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121427201#Comment_121427201

I've said nothing of the sort.