A2 Rate house is so cold at night

steve_

I moved into a new build last October and all has been going well but the house does be quite cold particularly the kids bedrooms which are north facing.

I reckon it's mainly down to the hole in the wall ventilation as I can feel a steady stream of cold air flowing through them. The builders cheaped out and put very low quality plastic vent covers that are just grills both inside and outside. I found the same covers in screwfix for like 5 euro each.

I'm actually surprised the houses are A2 rated with having no mechanical ventilation other than in the wet rooms. And we've a gas boiler with normal rads. I reckon it's the solar panels on the roof that bumped the rating up to pass the requirements.

But either way, coming into winter now the cold air is very noticeable and the kids waking up cold during the night unless we keep the heating running.

I'm wondering if anyone has suggestions for tackling this issue? I was thinking firstly of maybe getting an air tightness test done to check there's no big issues elsewhere with heat loss.

But I'm also looking for suggestions for vents to replace the current ones with that might allow for controlling the airflow to block some out during particularly cold nights.

Every room in the house has these cheap vents and it's beginning to really annoy me now.

I'd appreciate any suggestions

steve_

I don't think a BER cert will be of much use here.

Lewis_Benson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121353890#Comment_121353890

A BER cert isn't worth the paper it's written on.

wandererz

You can get slideable vent covers from any good DIY store or even screwfix. This will allow you to control the airflow into the room.

For when people are in bed, consider using an electric under blanket. Costs about 5c an hour to run.

Atlantic Dawn

What temperature do you get each room up to during the day?

wandererz

I would suggest also getting a gun type infrared thermometer.

That's what I've seen the BER guys use previously. I have one for my pizza oven though.

You can point it at walls, vents, windows, floors etc and check the temperature differences. That way you know where you are losing heat.

For the windows, do you have curtains or blinds in front of them?

There is also the option of reflective film applied directly to the window glass.

Infrared Thermometer Non-Contact Digital Laser Temperature Gun Color Display -58℉～1112℉(-50℃～600℃) Adjustable Emissivity - for Cooking/BBQ/Freezer/Food/Fridge - Meat Thermometer Included https://amzn.eu/d/dGkLGo1

zg3409

Is your house timber frame? If you have warm day and cold nights timber frame may not hold the heat and do feel cold relatively quickly when the heating is off. On the plus side timber frame heat up quicker than block built as you don't have all the cement blocks to warm.

Personally I would put on the heating a bit at night and ensure if you have thermostatic valves on the radiators they are set to keep the rooms not too cold nor too warm. If you have zones for upstairs only heat upstairs at night.

Buying cheap temperature displays is a good start, bedrooms should be really 16-18 Celsius at night as in cooler than living rooms although many people like them warmer.

If it's cold you need to put energy in to heat the place, if it's 5 degrees outside even an A rated house will cool and need lots of heating. Modern houses may have very small radiators and lower temperature boilers so cooler radiator temperatures for efficiency reasons.

XsApollo

Is the gas boiler inside the house? if so those vents that are required are massive and you can really feel the draft from them.

I had the same issue and put those slidable vent covers instead.

Close them when it’s cold or windy, leave them open during the summer.

you can get the vents in Woodies, screwfix, or any building place really.

Shoog

The problem is that an A2 rated house is designed to be airtight in its fabric, overnight a room will get very high levels of moisture and carbon dioxide, hence the insistance on permanent ventilation.

The issue is that this sort of ventilation, though essential, is totally uncontrollable and it over specified for most situations. The reality is that any A rated house should have MHRV as standard but for some reason the Irish building code cheaped out and went for permanent vents.

Basically it makes all your expensive airtightness building fabric redundant. The solution is to install MVHR and block up your vents. Your house is probably performing down at a D rating with the vents.

Stupid situation, but retrofitting MVHR is both expensive and disruptive (just done it myself).

listermint

Here's what I would do.

In the room with the gas boiler you'll need to leave a fixed opened vent. Can't touch that it must be continous fed.

In the kids rooms I'd check if there was a sleeve in the vent from inside to out e.g 4 inch pipe. This is to make sure the ventilation air isn't making it in behind plaster board . If there is one I'd fit a humidity controlled vent cover plenty available google a price you're comfortable with.

If there's no sleeve I'd fit one take both vents off fit it through and refit vent outside. Then fit humidity controlled vent cover inside as above.

This should limit airflow to when the room requires it based on humidity levels.

gandalfio

We've e got the exact same problem as you. We find 18-18.5 is comfortable for us for sleeping, but one bedroom in particular is much colder than this.

We replaced the vents with these, https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B077CKKBBQ/ref=ox_sc_saved_image_2?smid=AJ8Q5SD9MLKTW&psc=1

They're closed during the winter and open in summer. But even when they're closed they still allow enough air to pass through and we haven't seen any condensation on windows. They've improved the situation a bit, but haven't solved it.

Does your heating system run on zonal stats placed on the walls of the landing and hallway? You might need to move the one upstairs if its temperature reading is consistently higher than the bedrooms.

gandalfio

Also have a look at the insulation in your attic. If its not done correctly get the builder to sort it. Or you might want to upgrade it.

...

Bogwoppit

I’m astonished that you can have an A2 rated house with passive ventilation like that, that rating is an absolute joke!

Build an airtight well insulated home and then drill great big holes in the wall!

Blocking up the holes will lead to condensation problems but there is great advice above from listermint.

Shauna677

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121353919#Comment_121353919

He already said, theres gusts of cold air coming in through the vents.

Biker1

Assuming the house was built under the 2019 Regs then in order to allow passive background ventilation the airtightness test result would have to have been between 3 and 5 m3/hr/m2 at 50pa. This is an atrocious level of air leakage in a new build but all to common especially in developments.

The BER is just a measure of the energy efficiency of the building and comfort or running costs don't come into it. e.g put a heat pump in a C rated house without doing anything else and you may get an A3. Probably won't be any cheaper to heat than if using oil.

dbas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058322094/a2-rate-house-is-so-cold-at-night

Get your part l report and dwelling report from SEAI. That'll tell you airtightness of the house.

Also look at something like these. I'm assuming there's no wall stat in the kids bedroom.

https://www.screwfix.ie/p/tado-white-smart-trv-head-4-pack/793pg

Also, these hoods can prevent wind gusts into vents but leaves them open

https://www.screwfix.ie/p/manrose-cowl-vent-white-100mm-x-100mm/16195

Probably better versions of that available, but you get the point

893bet

Sad to see this in a new house. Far too many reports of new builds like this, or new builds with heat pumps that are costing a fortune to run (due to poor Airtightness I am guessing).

gandalfio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121354029#Comment_121354029

Any recommendations on 5 inch humidity vents? A lot of places seem to only do 4 inch.

Water John

There are single vent MHRV available:

https://www.bpcventilation.ie/bsk-zephyr-single-room-heat-recovery-unit

Del2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121354191#Comment_121354191

Get your part l report and dwelling report from SEAI. That'll tell you airtightness of the house.

Do builders test every house in a development now? I thought that only a few where tested and the results used for the development.

The house can't be very air tight with massive vents in all the rooms.

steve_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121353970#Comment_121353970

Yeah the house is timber frame. I also need to check the attic to see how well it's insulated up there. By cheap temperature displays do you on the rads or just a generic temperature display?

steve_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121354011#Comment_121354011

Yeah the boiler is in the utility room in the kitchen. It's got an extract vent in it but I think that's more for moisture I'm not sure. But yeah the wall vent are large with 150mm holes in each room

steve_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121354025#Comment_121354025

Thanks so you mind me asking how much the MVHR system cost? Are they just vent in the ceiling then and you close up the wall vents? Did you just get MVHR for the bedrooms or the whole house? I wouldn't mind leaving the vents as is for downstairs. It's more the bedrooms I'm concerned about

zg3409

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121354417#Comment_121354417

Just a generic portable display, it helps you decide on which rooms are colder, if they are unusually cold, at this time of year with 3 degrees outside you will need to heat multiple hours a day. Houses with heat pumps typically run on and off all night long.

Shoog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121354434#Comment_121354434

I am upgrading a 2000 era house that just had window trickle vents. New triple glazing so they will be gone.

All ceiling roses. The parts cost €3k for a three bed semi. If getting an installer expect to pay €6-8k. Horrible job I won't be rushing into again but should be worth it to hit our target of B2.

steve_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121354029#Comment_121354029

Thanks! The boilers in the utility room. It has got an extract vent in there. Would I still need a permanent vent in this case?

As for the vents in the rooms, yeah the have a sleeve in the hole. The holes are all 150mm. Do you have any recommendations for a humidity controlled vent? I've some money set aside so don't mind paying a bit of it helps effectively with the issue

steve_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121354045#Comment_121354045

I was looking at these exact vents myself. Dunno it's an issue though that the hole for these vents is 100mm where as the hole in my wall is 150mm.

We have thermostats in both the living room and master bedroom. But the issue is the master bedroom is south facing and the kids rooms are northfacing. So the thermostat will turn off the heating when it reaches temperature but there's often a significant temperature difference between the master bedroom and kids rooms when this happens

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121354463#Comment_121354463

Have you tried turning down the rads in the master bedroom so it heats slower? That would allow the other bedrooms to be warmer by the time the master bedroom gets up to temperature.

steve_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121354191#Comment_121354191

Thank you. It that part i or part L? I'll get onto the seai to find out. Also we have a thermostat upstairs in the master bedroom which controls the temp for all of upstairs. But can be a bit problematic since the master bedroom is south facing so tends to get up to temp quicker and then the heating turns off but the other rooms might be noticeably colder

XsApollo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121354423#Comment_121354423

It’s got nothing to do with extract vents or anything I think.

its more for carbon monoxide build up ?

if you have a gas boiler inside your house then they put in those big vents, I think they are even required larger than an oil burner? ( I could be wrong) just going from memory from when I was reading about it.

you’ll see on the likes of screwfix that some wall vents are suitable for gas and some are not, the ones suitable for gas , don’t have screens and have larger openings.

we had the same issue, it’s not really heat loss, in the bedroom you could actually feel the cold air blowing in when lying in bed. You could feel the draft, even worse when windy and in winter.

i just took the old ones off and put something similar to this.

https://www.screwfix.ie/p/map-vent-adjustable-vent-white-229mm-x-152mm/7374d

yea they might not be suitable for gas, but I was damned if I was sitting in the house feeling the draft. They will help until/ or if you want a better solution.