Firebird Enviromax will only fire with cover off

Alfagtamini

Hi all

Odd one for you:

Firebird Enviromax heatpack 20-26kw

Riello RDB2.2 Burner on kerosene

Was serviced last year and stopped firing on Monday night. Struggled to get anyone free to look at it this week so I had a look myself.

Boiler itself was heavily sooted up so removed all the baffles and gave it a good clean. Fitted the correct nozzle and a new photocell. It had a S fitted instead of a ES as per the manual.

Airlow is set at 4 and it fires and works fine. But when I fit the side cover it fires for a few seconds and makes a strange noise. See video attached.

Airflow was set at 1.5 since the last service.

Air intake is clear, I also removed the fan from the side of the burner and nothing obstructing flow was found.

Any ideas ?

Thanks

Paul

https://youtube.com/shorts/qol1xOud05g?si=khPHbTsl8b_0yEng

declan b

Id presume the burner is a riello rdb 2.2. The issue points to flue gas recycling inside the casing. It could be a leak through the door gasket or an issue with the condesate trap.could you post a picture of the condesate trap...

declan b

You really need a service guy that can set the boiler up with a flue gas analyser to get the boiler to run properly and efficiently

Alfagtamini

Thanks for your reply, I did remove it and give it a flush. Then filled it up before refitting. Yes typo on the initial post it is a RDB2.2

Alfagtamini

That was the plan, to get someone out and get it done properly. But I had no luck finding finding someone with availability for the next 2 weeks.

Any recommendations for someone via PM that covers east Limerick ?

jimf

the air damper set at 1.5 is way too low for this boiler

usually nearer 4 but you cant just adjust this without a fga as declan says above

where in east limerick are you

Alfagtamini

Thanks for your reply. I'll send you a PM with my location.

Thanks

Wearb

A sooted enviromax 😱

Lots of work cleaning that out. At least it's outside.

Alfagtamini

Yes it took ages to clean out.

The worst thing is when it was serviced last year it was spotless inside. So I'm wondering when he fitted the incorrect nozzle and turned the air down did it cause it to get so sooted up?

jimf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121343844#Comment_121343844

i love em when wet and sooty

jimf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121343859#Comment_121343859

the wrong nozzle was most likely the cause and lowering the damper only made it worse

these are a contrary boiler if you dont know what your at

few little things about them that need setting up properly

Wearb

Post a pic of yourself just after you finish cleaning it 🙄🤣

Alfagtamini

That's good to know, thanks for that

Alfagtamini

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121343950#Comment_121343950

It took longer to clean the shower tray afterwards:)

Wearb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121343973#Comment_121343973

And it's unlikely that you got it cleaned properly. I think they're the most difficult boiler to clean out soot from.

Lenar3556

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121344061#Comment_121344061

I have seen pressure washers being directed into them via the flue in an attempt to dislodge soot when things were very bad.

Lenar3556

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058321740/firebird-enviromax-will-only-fire-with-cover-off

S vs ES nozzle wouldn’t make a huge difference in itself, but they have different reference pressures - so if the boiler was set up correctly with an S and you now have fitted an ES you will have significantly increased the fuel loading and the thing will need more air.

The condensate trap you have photographed is the older plastic model - would be a good idea to replace this with the new stainless version. They aren’t expensive.

It is going to be very hard to solve that properly without a flue gas analyser. That iteration of enviromax was prone to sooting up and it needs to be carefully tuned and regularly serviced to keep on track.

Wearb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121344404#Comment_121344404

"S vs ES nozzle wouldn’t make a huge difference in itself, but they have different reference pressures - so if the boiler was set up correctly with an S and you now have fitted an ES you will have significantly increased the fuel loading and the thing will need more air."

-----------

Do you have that the wrong way around?

jimf

s nozzle will have a greater output than an es nozzle at the same pressure

my golden rule for servicing any boiler

start with the correct nozzle and then work from there as the boiler manf have the homework done and know the nozzle that works best

jimf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121344061#Comment_121344061

surely you have worked on a sooted grant vortex 155 now thats hard work

Wearb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121344495#Comment_121344495

Couldn't disagree with that. It's always best to use MI nozzle.

Lenar3556

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121344447#Comment_121344447

Sorry, I do!

So a straight swop for ES will reduce the fuel delivery, and output by about 20%.

Wearb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121344502#Comment_121344502

No 😰

So far so good. I'll have to get the low down on that from you sometime.

Wearb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121344509#Comment_121344509

Yes (maybe), if going by gph. But I've done my head in in the past trying to figure it out.

The es/h nozzle seems to have a reference pressure of 8 bar for gph, but 10 for the metric markings.

I've tried threshing it out with Danfoss, but they gave up answering my difficult questions. I suppose I wasn't talking to an engineer there.

jimf

you could wreck your head trying to understand nozzle calibration

do you no know a 60x60s fits every boiler made in ireland 🤣

jimf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121344520#Comment_121344520

you will never again want to see a turbulator after you finish

Wearb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121344555#Comment_121344555

I don't, but a few guys around here does 😀

Wearb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121344564#Comment_121344564

Do they jam?

jimf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121344583#Comment_121344583

the bottom row can if the condensate isnt getting away properly

the sheer qty of tubes gives me the wobbles

Alfagtamini

The good news is I hopefully have someone who knows what they are talking about coming to look at it over the next few days, fingers crossed.

Thanks for everyone's help

Lenar3556

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121344543#Comment_121344543

There is a decent mobile phone app called NozCalc (EOGB). Put in the nozzle type, size, fuel type, pump pressure etc. and it gives an output.

Can’t fully vouch for the accuracy, but it concurs with grants output labeling for a given nozzle and fuel pressure.

Wearb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121344984#Comment_121344984

I've seen screenshots from users on some groups. It seems to be a good app. I expect the designers have taken their data from nozzle manufacturers data sheets and not done their own volume output checks. I can mostly avoid having to do calculations, as I carry correct nozzles for popular boilers. I have charts on my tablet for the calculations if I need to do it.

Do you have the EGOB nozzle calculator? Btw there is also an excel version.

Alfagtamini

Boiler is now up and running again. Great service from a member on here!

jimf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121348355#Comment_121348355

oh jesus his head is big enough

jimf

good man for posting back

sometimes we help people on here and you never hear back until they are in trouble again

Wearb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121348877#Comment_121348877

So wheres the "after" picture? ☻️☻️☻️

jimf

hes still at home with the brillo pad