New E scooter laws

tom1ie

Hi all,

I see the new E scooter laws are to come into force soon:

https://m.independent.ie/regionals/dublin/dublin-news/new-rules-banning-e-scooters-from-footpaths-and-driving-over-20kmph-due-within-weeks/a190006529.html

the question I have is we (Santa) were going to get our two kids (8 and 11) some child E scooters something like this:

https://www.aovopro.com/product/aovopro-esmini-250w-motor-5-inch-ultra-light-foldable-electric-scooters/

for the kids to scoot from our house to their friends within the estate, also in the park and also to the local shop about 5 mins down the road.

Is this now a non runner under the new laws as anyone using a scooter has to be 16+?

Gregor Samsa

Why would you even consider giving an 8 year old a motorised vehicle that can travel at 25km/h and has absolutely no safety features so they can travel unsupervised in public? You shouldn't need laws to tell you that this isn't appropriate.

ThreeGreens

Yes that is my understanding. Under 16s will not be allowed to use them.

For such short journeys would you not thing your kids would be better walking or cycling? The exercise is essential for them.

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121341408#Comment_121341408

The E scooter can be limited to 10kmph.

Its no different to giving one of the electric cars that they can sit into and goes at 10kph.

Both kids will be wearing all essential PPE and are used to cycling.

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121341448#Comment_121341448

Yeah they have bikes and they get plenty of exercise through football, swimming and gymnastics plus general playing in the local field with their friends.

The scooters are what they’ve asked for off Santa and they because they can be speed limited plus they’ll be wearing all essential protective equipment- I don’t see an issue.

MakersMark

What part of the following can't you comprehend?

However, they added that there are some new rules specifically for e-scooter users. These include:

• Must use a cycle lane and must not be used on footpaths
• Must not drive over the speed limit of 20kmph
• Must be over 16 years

Typical Irish attitude...the rules don't apply to my kids.

BraveDonut

Makes no odds either way - there will be zero enforcement of these laws

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121341688#Comment_121341688

What’s with the attitude?

I haven’t read about the laws and I wondered was there an exemption if a KIDS scooter was used in a park for example.

No need for the smart remarks!

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121341724#Comment_121341724

Possibly but if it’s now illegal I won’t be buying any.

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121341782#Comment_121341782

No garda is going to be stopping teens or youngers for being on scooters.

It is another law that will not be enforced. I think gardai have plenty more important things to be at than trying to penalise minors for using escooters

waterwelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121341932#Comment_121341932

Exactly. Wont be enforced but I suppose the idea is that a majority of people will be readable compliant.

What's an escooter defined as anyway? Is an ebike considered the same thing?

tom1ie

Well I mean it’s just a kids scooter with a battery that can be limited to 10KPH- it just seems crazy that the likes of that is illegal if the user is below 16 but driving something like this is legal (I presume?)

https://www.childwoodplay.com/product-page/24v-utv-max-power-mx-blue

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121342043#Comment_121342043

Power Wheels basically

not street legal I wouldn't presume without verification

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1girAAM-24

SteM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121341554#Comment_121341554

Fair play to you, any kid I see on them around here is not wearing PPE and their parents have certainly not restricted them to 10kph and many of those kids would be 10 or 11. It's good to see a parent considering these things rather than them just buying a scooter without thinking of the legalities.

Thargor

Why not spend a fraction of the money on something the kids will have to pedal or scoot themselves? It will be 100X better for their health and development, last 10 times as long before it breaks and gets turned into landfill and protect the kids from spiraling childhood obesity. Giving kids something with an electric motor to move around is ridiculous imo.

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121342147#Comment_121342147

Thanks for the constructive reply SteM. Appreciate that.

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121342185#Comment_121342185

The escooter we were looking at it is actually only €119.

As mentioned before the kids do have bikes, attend swimming, football and gymnastics classes. They also play with their friends in the local fields.

They are not as risk of obesity.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121341777#Comment_121341777

Parks aren't public roads so you can use them. However, you also asked about scooting around your estate and to the local shop which are public roads, so you can't use them for that purpose unless you are over 16.

gifted

Is it compulsary for them to wear a helmet?

Gregor Samsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121342437#Comment_121342437

Parks aren't public roads so you can use them. 

Parks may have bylaws prohibiting their use irrespective of this legislation.

For example, the 2002 Dublin City parks and open space bylaws states:

4.6 (a): No person shall cycle or use any skateboard, roller skates, roller blades, or other vehicle in any park or open space except on such routes and in such places as may be designated by the Council for that purpose.

I wouldn't be surprised if such bylaws were updated to specifically cover e-scooters once the general legislation mentioned in the OP becomes law.

prunudo

Tell them that santa is a boll1x and won't be able to deliver on the request due to bureaucratic red tape, safety laws and societal issues. It will be a good life lesson and they will appreciate, with hindsight the tough love santa dished out during Christmas '23 in later life 🙂

Economics101

However, they added that there are some new rules specifically for e-scooter users. These include:

• Must use a cycle lane and must not be used on footpaths

So scooters are compelled to use a cycle lane, but bicycles apparently are not. Who makes up these rules?

waterwelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121342147#Comment_121342147

Why would parents restrict them to 10kph. Is there a law somewhere in relation to this?

prunudo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121342675#Comment_121342675

I can see it now, a development of the them and us arguments. Cyclists won't use the lanes due to the scourge of lawless e-scooter riders 😂

SteM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121342726#Comment_121342726

I was referencing a post from the OP who said he would restrict them to 10kph for safety reasons if he bought them.

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121342726#Comment_121342726

So that the kids get used to going at 10KPH.

Then you can gradually build the speed up.

Pherekydes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121342675#Comment_121342675

You can cycle on the road, but not on a footpath.

Economics101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121343286#Comment_121343286

But a cyclist appears to be free to use the road, even where there is a cycle lane. However a scotterist will not be allowed to do so, apparently. Why?

Pherekydes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121343576#Comment_121343576

Historically, bikes have used the road. It's a fairly recent development that bike lanes have shared footpaths, and many experienced and old school cyclists feel uncomfortable sharing a space with slow moving pedestrians. If scooters are limited to 20km/hr they're probably safer on a cycle lane. Which, of course, begs the question: are the pedestrians (safe)?

Potential-Monke

It may be a law that won't be enforced, but it will give AGS the power to take the scooters off kids who are acting the knob. Probably couldn't (legally) all along, but now the law will be on their side.

prunudo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121344010#Comment_121344010

I'll probably be in the minority here, but I don't think footpaths and cycle lanes should be shared. Bicycles are traffic and should be kept away from pedestrians. Given the speeds cyclists and escooters can go, they should be kept seperate to vulnerable people who use footpaths, elderly, children etc etc.

Emblematic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121344010#Comment_121344010

As a pedestrian, the only time I am annoyed by e-scooters is when they use the pedestrian footpath. When they use the cycle lane (which may simply be a line painted on the former footpath), I'm not bothered.

I think one of the problems is that the government ignored the new technology of e-scooters (and their benefits) for so long that there's now a population of riders who have got used to riding on the footpath and will take time to migrate. Cars will also need to get used to them on the road.

Public information campaigns need to be created informing e-scooter and bike riders how to correctly use the roads and cycle/e-scooter lanes. Car drivers also need to be educated on looking out for e-scooters and bicycles and giving them space on the road.

But for me, far better to have people cycling and using e-scooters than holding everyone up by driving cars.

Pherekydes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121344298#Comment_121344298

Agree wholeheartedly.

...Ghost...

OP, it's a bad idea to get an e-scooter for such young children. 25kph is plenty to cause serious injury or death to a kid. You won't keep them limited to 10kph and probably won't restrict the speed at all....nobody ever does. The difference between the electric ride on cars and e-scooters, is that one is limited to 10kph by default and is safer due to ride position (sitting down) but the other will reach dangerous speeds and be unstable on tiny wheels.

I got an e-scooter when they first started hitting our streets 5 years ago. I used it for short commutes, or popping to the shops. It was good fun, convenient and a real time saver, but it was not safe for kids. 25kph was the top speed and if I were to fall off on the concrete, I would have likely got injured moderately to severely. I allowed my 8 and 12 year old at the time to ride the scooter on grass, in the park while in eco mode (15kph) and wouldn't allow them to go on the path, or on the higher setting, because I know the potential danger.

Flinty997

They only been shared where space or paths are limited.

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121344536#Comment_121344536

Yeah thanks for your input ghost I know what you mean, the pressure will always be there from the child to be allowed go 25KPH.

There are some e scooters that will only go 10KPH but I reckon the kids will lose interest in them fairly quick.

It’s a bit of a mess now as I know their friends have e scooters that their parents have limited to 10-15 KPH but now when these laws come in they’ll be illegal so potentially could be taken off them even if they are just on the estate roads or the track around the field close to me which seems a bit harsh.

If it was a kids e-bike instead of a kids escooter they’d be grand though?

Flinty997

What's a kids eBike?

Many kids will cycle quite fast on a regular bike.

eScooters are currently illegal. So they won't become illegal. They become legal. So the kids have not been legal on them except on private property.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121342675#Comment_121342675

is that from the article? anything i've seen about the irish law states 25km/h max but the article states 20. it may well be (shock horror) that the journalist got it wrong.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121344958#Comment_121344958

The children are too young for an e-scooter and I have never seen an e-bike for that age group

What is wrong with buying them a bike and letting them cycle?

Or just a push scooter, kids need exercise

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121345561#Comment_121345561

If you bothered to read the thread you would know the answer to this.

Just FYI you claim that an 8 and an 11 year old are too young for an escooter yet there are plenty of shops Irish and otherwise that sell escooters specifically for kids:

https://www.decathlon.ie/electric-scooters/346964-244906-kids-electric-scooter-globber-e-200.html?gclid=Cj0KCQiAo7KqBhDhARIsAKhZ4uig17TaEx7Ie5QWvolFEQinCluuhPix10VOAJWMZfGQyvbF7tkejMcaApWcEALw_wcB#/demodelsize-254no_size/demodelcolor-8802463

the above is recommended for kids over 8.

If you read the thread I’ve linked to another one recommended for 8years and up, there are many more examples I’ll let you find yourself.

XsApollo

10 to 15 km/hr might not sound like much, but it’s plenty when you are face planting into the ground , car , corner of a wall or whatever else you decide to drive into.

comparing it to a ride on kids car is no comparison, if it a kids car loses control more than likely the kids will still be sitting in the car after.

Slightly Kwackers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121341688#Comment_121341688

But wouldn't the fact that Santa brought it down the chimney render any court prosecution invalid?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121345865#Comment_121345865

They don't however sell them for use on the public roads, because it's illegal, and will continue to be illegal, which is what you want them for.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121345865#Comment_121345865

I did not know kids scooters were a thing

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121345891#Comment_121345891

No faster than a regular bicycle.

You can trip while walking and do yourself serious injury. Where do you draw the line?

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121345985#Comment_121345985

Well exactly.

I mean an 8 year old can go faster than 10-15KPH on a bike so should that not be allowed either?

XsApollo

I don’t disagree that a bike might be the same, my post was in reference to comparing it to a ride on kids car, there is no comparison.

and bike would be safer than a scooter I’d say, but both wouldn’t be comparable to a kids ride on car.

standing up on a scooter compared to sitting on a bike:

a scooter can sustain that speed .

a bike is easier to control and would stop better.

drive into a curb on a bike or a scooter and see which one get over it.

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121346020#Comment_121346020

Ok so a non powered scooter going down a hill compared to a kids E scooter limited by the parent to 10-15KPH (depending on model) with appropriately sized disc brakes.

Which ones safer?

Flinty997

I think when you are taking a ride on kids car it's basically a toy. As such it "probably" will be designed for certain ages.

If you are buying electronics good which may not be to EU standard, or EU laws, then its irreverent what the law is. That comes down to parenting. Like those mini moto motorbikes.

If you are doing it in a private field under supervision, perhaps for sports, thats one thing. Doing on a public path or park or road is entirely another. Then Darwin law applies.

XsApollo

You compared a scooter to a kids ride on car. There is no comparison.

and you are asking an obvious question there. The important part there is going down a hill. :-D

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121345865#Comment_121345865

Shops also sell scrambler bikes to kids for Christmas

From the link you provided

Electric scooter designed for users over age 8 ONLY on private roads.

According to French traffic regulations, this product is equipped for driving on certain public roads, for users age 12 and up.

Doesn't sound like a resounding advertisement to give to a child.