Partner not going back to work - am I being unfair??

Sunriser78

Hi,

We got a huge health scare last year.

My partner's cancer metastatised and we didn't know how long he'd have.

Thankfully all has been well and there is no sign of any further growth or spread after the treatment but we're living scan to scan.

He's been brilliant - completely changed his lifestyle, and is now super healthy. We feel like he's out of the woods, but of course it could all change at the next scan.

His work is just fantastic - they gave him paid time off and after that a portion of his pay for a while, and a leave of absence. They didn't have to do that, but he is great at his job and the customers love him.

They said he can go back for 3 hours two mornings a week first and work up to 4 a week, but only for their busy times - about half the year.

But he said he's not going back, as he is too busy, wants to finish his novel, and has treatment every month ( but his work is ok with this). I think he just doesn't want to go back into the work environment too.

But this is going to put us under financial pressure. We were great when he was working, even though he is not great at budgeting at the best of times. But since they stopped paying him, we are on our credit cards by mid month.

He pays his credit card bill out of his own account, but puts it back from our joint account when I get paid. Last month it was big again and we're on our cards again now.

I just can't see how we'll manage if he doesn't work at all. Christmas is coming and I cant see how I'll get all the presents, unless I'm paying it off til April. And if anything crops up in the meantime, I won't be able to pay for it.

It is not huge money but it is the difference between stress and no stress.

Am I being unfair thinking he should go back?

Calahonda52

If he does not go back to work, are there any state supports he can get.

I am in a similar position, though not as far down the line, but am also waiting the hammer to fall.

I am working so as I can continue to be a contribution to society and not be sitting around moping about it all..

He may feel the same via the novel but I would suggest he goes back to work as sitting around writing with this health issue in the background won't make for easy writing

Are you renting?

You also need to budget very clearly and make sure that only joint expenses are being paid jointly

Sunriser78

Thanks Calahonda52. Wishing you all the best.

No, thankfully not renting. There are no supports that we can get.

He is living life to the max and work would just take his time. I think he'd be happy if he never worked again.

Yes, budget discussions every weekend would be a good idea alright.

Jafin

I don't think you're being unfair at all. It's not uncommon for people who have such a huge health scare like that to start living their life to the max, as you put it, because they suddenly realise all the things they could have missed out on had worst come to worst. I think you need to sit down and discuss the money situation. Three hours of work two-four mornings a week doesn't sound like much of a sacrifice for him to make assuming he is well enough to do it. That's only 6-12 hours a week, he will have plenty of time outside of work to do all the other things he wants to do.

At the end of they day you are partners, he should also be supporting you in any way he can just as you have been supporting him. It doesn't sit right with me that he pays off his credit card bill and then takes your money from the joint account to replenish his own funds. If all the stuff on the credit card bill is stuff for both of you and household expenditure then fair enough, but he shouldn't be taking money out of the joint account for anything he is buying just for himself.

Sunriser78

Thanks Jafin. You are right. Need to talk it out. It just hasn't worked so well in the past, so I'm worried.

Most of his spending is on stuff for the children, or house as he has more time to do it. Maybe need to agree to discuss any buying that isn't food before it is done.

notAMember

Can I ask if you are married? And if not, why not? Think about what would happen with life assurance and insurance and any shared loans, and death in service benefits, and inheritance if you are not married?

In my personal experience, having separate accounts but sharing a life together can sometimes show that people are not thinking the same way financially... leading to some stress on the relationship. money trouble makes emotional trouble.

He seems to be coping with the scare by spending everything you have, and living life like there is no future. Maybe counselling would help here if you've already had the conversation and he is still experiencing that shock. He might need some motivation to get back into gear with providing for himself, and your shared future. Does he think that your future doesn't exist anymore?

Another way to start to look at this is to start a financial plan for your lives, if you don't have one already. Small things... how to create an emergency fund... once that is done, what's the plan to get rid of any large debts, and then move into planning for your future or retirement.

There's an american radio host, Dave Ramsey, who hosts a radio program on finances, there are clips of his show all over the place in easy to understand bitesize chunks, you can give him a google , vids will be on every platform. It's american but the concepts are the same wherever you live. A few of those might influence your partners thinking.

ElizaBennett

You're in a very difficult position, OP, as you're dealing with 'the Big C' here and it's tricky to let conversation go to mundane financial matters when it's a matter of life and death. He's probably re-appraising his whole outlook on life, realising how precious it is and how he wants to spend his time. How do you argue with that? But, at the same time, you're left footing the bills with all the financial responsibility.

I think you have to bite the bullet and discuss it with him. What are his intentions in the short to medium term? It's disappointing that he hasn't discussed it with you already or included you in his decision making. Probably he just assumes you want what he wants and it's got to be all about him now that he's ill. As unfair as that might be. Maybe if you approach the conversation from the point of view of your immediate plans leading up to Christmas and how you'll manage that financially. Tell him you're worried about getting into deep debt and ask him what he thinks. Tell him it's causing you stress and you need to be strong together now. Ill or not, it does sound like he's being very selfish - but who am I to judge, I've neve had a life-threatening illness.

HildaOgdenx

I suppose when you get a health scare you re-evaluate lots of things and maybe start thinking life is too short and so forth. You can also become perhaps a bit self-involved, naturally enough.

The bottom line is though that him not working is creating some financial difficulties now. So, yes, I think you will both need to sit down and talk it out. Maybe have a look at putting together what your budget looks like, with Christmas coming and so on, and approach it from that angle.

Sounds like his employer is very supportive too, which is great, especially in easing him back in with part-time hours.

Like pp, I was going to suggest that counselling might help, if he hasn't already availed of it. I believe that there are some support organisations who are really helpful on that front.

Anyway, no, I don't think you are being selfish at all. An illness like that takes a toll on the people around the actual patient as well.

Mind yourself.

iniscealtra

You need to talk about finances. What your expenses are and what your earnings are. Can you cut back if he wants to work less ? It seems that you can’t afford to live on one income. Talk about the consequences of getting into debt. Talk about your children’s future.

Cancer is a big deal but life goes on. Bills need to be paid.

Sunriser78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121341270#Comment_121341270

Thank you very much

Sunriser78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121341209#Comment_121341209

Thanks I really appreciate that

Sunriser78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121341204#Comment_121341204

We are married. I don't think he is really thinking about me or the kids, as Ive always earned more than him maybe.

I have a small emergency fund, and he has his own account that he puts any money he earns from a side hustle he had, that he uses for his hobby and trips. I would put the family first, and myself after, but in fairness he did dip into that account over the years when we were broke.

I would prefer to save to buy rather than buy now and pay later. We have different attitudes to money, and it's just about worked til now.

Thanks very much for Dave Ramsey - I'll check him out. I really appreciate your reply

zoobizoo

He is turning down 6 hours a week.... and then up to 12 hours.... and for 6 months of the year. And they have treated him really well up to now.

I'm all for people following their dreams but 6 or 12 hours out of a "novelist's" week isn't that much. I'd also say that it would give him focus on his book.

Is he putting in 40 hours a week writing?

I know a writer, 2 books published, both well received, (and they've got a debilitating illness) and they wrote the books after the kids went to bed.

Encourage him to send his first draft to a publisher now.... see what the reaction is.

Would he find similar work with such a nice company in the future?

I know someone who works in oncology and I hear many horrible stories and people wondering why they didn't spend more time with kids and regrets about long working hours ..... but your husband is getting a good offer here to get paid/good hours/helping the family financially and being there for them more often.

Dial Hard

It's totally understandable that a health scare has made him re-evaluate his priorities, but he needs to be realistic here - he has a family and responsibilities and if that can't work on one income then something has to give. Good for him, he's writing a book but plenty of published novelists still can't afford to give up the day job - Damien Owen, who wrote Duffy & Son is just one of many, many examples.

You need to have a very frank and honest conversation about the realities of your (joint) financial situation. It sounds like you've been carrying the lion's share of the burden for quite a while now, and he assumes that can continue.

Sunriser78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121342649#Comment_121342649

Yes , I think you are right

Sunriser78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121342555#Comment_121342555

There's no future for him, there's only now. Which is a great way to live. But it's an amazing offer. I think he should push himself to do this for the family. We're just scraping by. He always says we're grand, you're on a great wage.

YellowLead

Have you ever felt like he puts you and the kids first OP? I know men who have gone through similar scares and their priorities were always worrying and trying to make sure the family would be okay financially when they were gone and not wanting to stop work.

If he is uncertain whether or not he is going to live much longer I can understand the desire to not spend any time working - however it would only be a small number of hours and would remove your stress so I’m not seeing how he can be so selfish, unless he always has been a selfish natured person. You could end up supporting him for life once he gets through this if you are not careful. I’m sorry I know what sounds harsh and I don’t mean to disrespect your husband - I just wonder at the behaviour to put oneself first when many out family first instead.

road_high

No you’re not being unfair at all. Quite the opposite clearly and have been extremely supportive- he is so lucky to have that.

But this “living life to the max and no worries” spiel is all very well but we all have to make a living to provide the necessities of life and also the luxuries- cancer or not we cannot expect someone to provide that. I think he’s living in a fantasy land and needs to realise asap he needs a plan to support himself and also mutually you as his partner

thefa

Apologies if I missed it but how long has it been since he got the all clear?

Work has been kind to him but they can’t reasonably be expected to keep that offer open indefinitely. Keeping his foot in the door with them with a relatively low time commitment is far easier than having to go looking in the future where he might have to take what’s going.

Depending on the rate and hours, it likely to be relatively low tax too so highlight to him how even € hundred a week will mean you can start saving for XY&Z across those 6 months. I’m sure there are both practical (maybe kid related) and extravagant (like holidays or further housing upgrades) that could maybe tempt him as a future motivation for more immediate income than a book which may or may not work.

I’m just echoing what others have said with the above but it sounds like a mindset change from living month to month is required on his side. At the end of day, you financing the family almost entirely was understandable during the big scare ye went through but is not something you signed up for before the scare or permanently after it.

HazeDoll

I could be totally wrong about this but I have the impression that he has never had to worry about finances because you have always done the planning and worrying for both of you. He might genuinely not appreciate that a loss of income will have real consequences for the family.

As regards the novel, there's always the chance that it's the answer to your problems. Tell him to polish what has already been written and send it to as many literary agents as you can find addresses for. Set a date as a goal for sending manuscripts out. Read the agents' guidelines about things like preferred formats and genres, precis, author details and anything else that comes up. A lot of agents won't consider something that isn't finished but a clear plot outline for the parts that aren't yet written might get their interest.

Is he actually working on the novel? Writing is hard, finishing things is very, very hard. He is doing this instead of having a job so unless it's an excuse and a distraction he needs to be actually toiling away at it, setting goals and sticking to a schedule. A thousand words a day is very achievable and even if it's not his best work it's progress.

The novel might be a winner or it might be an excuse not to go back to the grind. He needs to understand that writing is its own grind. A little supportive pressure to take the writing seriously might produce a great novel or it might help him to understand that the offer from his employers is worth considering.

foxsake

i think - as people do after a health scare - he figured that he was drifting before and now decided to re-evaluate his life. But from what you say that compelet revamp has caused him to lose the run of himself and his responsibilities.

looks like he isn't considering you or the kids in this quest to live his best life.

my own belief he should be back working full time (if his health 0- not his mood - permits) , he may have been sick but he has a duty to his family that he is ignoring to live his best life. The offer from work is nice but wouldn't be acceptable for me due to the financial hit.

I think a frank discussion is required and while a bit down the road (in terms of discussion) you need to have all your options considered in case he refuses to change.

HazeDoll

If either of you were abducted by aliens, never to return, what state would your finances be in? If you're living on credit cards you're in real danger of slipping into serious debt if something unexpected comes up.

Are you paying for childcare? With one parent not working it really doesn't make sense to outsource childcare.

It's very possible he's having a brief Lester Burnham spell and he'll come to his senses of his own accord.

When Harper Lee had been banging on about wanting to write a novel for a while, her friends got together and collected the money she would need to live on for a year and get the novel written. She was galvanised by the faith her friends had in her and she had a concrete timeline so she knuckled down and wrote the book. Could you make a deal with your husband? Take a look at your finances and see how long you can get by on one income by cutting out holidays, eating out, spending on hobbies etc. Look at getting a basic TV package or getting rid of a second car. Do whatever you need to do so you can get by on one paycheque, leaving cards for emergencies and setting a small sum aside every month.

Present it to him. "This is what I'm willing to do, for a limited time, to support you in writing your novel."

With a bit of luck he'll get a bit of a bit of a land from seeing the sacrifices his family are going to have to make so he can live the dream.

marilynrr

It is not huge money but it is the difference between stress and no stress.

Am I being unfair thinking he should go back?

No, not at all. Stress is bad for your health. You don't want to end up with health problems of your own.

Of course he may feel stressed about going back too but there has to be some kind of compromise because he can't expect you to shoulder all of the financial responsibility and all of the stress of worrying about finances while he lives his life to the max as you said!

Purple Mountain

If he jacks in this job, he'll never again get am employer as supporting and understanding.

Please encourage him not to burn his bridges there.

Sunriser78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121351509#Comment_121351509

Family emergency last weekend, so didn't get to put it down in black and white so what the impact will be is clear to him and me.

Sunriser78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121361023#Comment_121361023

No question about that. If this goes, he'll never get anything like it.

Sunny Disposition

Six to 12 hours a week really isn't a lot. Is there a long commute involved or something? I don't think you are being unreasonable.

road_high

Reading back on your post you say he’s paying the credit card bill directly out of a joint account (which I assume is for shared bills). This is pretty outrageous behaviour in my opinion and dare I say it, sneaky.

Has he any income source? Unlikely he qualifies for social welfare and doesn’t sound like he has any redundancy or lump sum. It is very hard for him having cancer and the treatment and all that goes with it but he’s taking the piss with you financially

road_high

I’ve a friend that was undergoing some treatment and used be in Dublin (from Kilkenny) three mornings a week at 7.00 am and back to work in Kilkenny at 10.00 am. They just wanted to get on with it and act as normal as possible

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121342904#Comment_121342904

We think very alike, came on to post the exact same.

This guy is having a laugh and deserves a kick up the backside for me. OP are you saying he has his own CC a/c that he pays out of his own savings but then replenishes those savings from your wages each month? So he's not actually at a loss? He can't be that worried about his future health and living each day if he's more interested about maintaining his savings.

Sounds to me like he's always entertained the idea of being a kept man ('we're grand, you earn a big wage') and the health scare is being used as the perfect excuse for him to do eff all now. As Yellowlead says, this could be for a lifetime.

Look back, was he more interested in the side hustle as a way to make money rather than the humdrum 9-5? Don't be a doormat here, his company has bent over backwards for him too and he's giving you both two fingers.

Tork

Not being smart OP but is he even writing a novel? He sounds like he's taking the p*ss and is using his illness to opt out of acting like an adult. I can't even begin to understand what it is like to be facing into what your husband is, but his behaviour is not OK. It's as if he has closed his world down into "me me me" and has stopped caring about the future for the rest of the family.

Murt10

You're not being unfair. He is being unreasonable.

Living on credit cards is unsustainable. The interest rates they charge are extortionate and you're barely keeping your head above water. What happens when a big expected or unexpected expense comes in.

I'd be sitting him down and having a talk about finances. I'd also separate them and not let him dip into yours as and when he wants,

As he has no income himself, except for his side hustle, let him use up all his own money and not allow him to use you to finance his lifestyle.

marilynrr

He pays his credit card bill out of his own account, but puts it back from our joint account when I get paid. Last month it was big again and we're on our cards again now.

Only spotted this. OP your partner is really taking the piss. Interesting how he gets to be so oh breezy about finance concerns but replenishes his own account as soon as you get paid!

ts_editor

Don't rely on this novel to solve your problems. First-time authors make NO MONEY. Thousands of books are published every week. Any that actually sell enough to fully support their author are flukes. Even then, it takes years for the royalties to come through.

Half the money in publishing is made by 10% of the (mostly already established) authors and from celebrity bios.

A couple of morning's work per week isn't at all unreasonable to support one's writing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkQx8Z4JAt8

Sunriser78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121369909#Comment_121369909

Yes I think this is inconsiderate

Sunriser78

Thanks everyone.

I talked to my partner about my concerns.

He said he's not going back to work, ad it'll take the energy he's putting into staying well and cancer free. I do get this. They love him at work because he gives 110%.

He also said I'm being dramatic. I don't think so. We just need to budget and I'm sick of the insecurity.

I've decided to get paid into the account that I use to pay the bills, split what's left after by week, and put that in to our current account every week. If anything big needs to be bought, it can come out of anything left. If nothing is left then we'll need to do without.

I can so easily understand the mentality of spending as if there were no tomorrow when you are bluntly faced with your mortality /declining health. But this affects your family, and needs to be discussed, maybe frame it in a way that you BOTH need to budget so as to protect each other.

XsApollo

Is he on illness benefit for being out sick?

also I dunno your salaries or how ye manage your tax , but in case you haven’t/ or don’t do already , then you should maximise your take home pay by taking his credits and increase your own rate band.

RurtBeynolds

The balls on this fella.

OP he's told you straight to your face he's not going to work again. Are really prepared to live paycheck to paycheck to support this guy because he's not arsed working?

Yes, he was sick. But now he's not, so it's time to go back to being a grown up, and that includes working to pay the bills. That does NOT mean expecting your partner to pay your way for the rest of your life.

road_high

Well done for bringing it up-not easy to do.

I think this is going to be a major problem then. He’s already diving into shared bill money to cover his own living expenses. That’s a huge problem as it’s very dishonest. He effectively has no income and expects you to support him. Is he doing all the house work etc at least as a return?

I love these people that shut down debate or criticism by calling you over dramatic or emotional- classic deflection.

I think you should take full control of your money and not allow him any access to it. Harsh but realistic

road_high

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121391007#Comment_121391007

I’d imagine he wouldn’t qualify for that as I think partner’s salary is taken into consideration?

XsApollo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121391075#Comment_121391075

I don’t think partners salary is taken into consideration, I could be wrong mind.

road_high

Lots of info here

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social-welfare/social-welfare-payments/disability-and-illness/disability-benefit/

there’s also Partial Illness benefit which I’ve never heard of.

By the sounds of the husband he’ll probably go off on one again if brought up but fcuk him. The guy is in cloud cuckoo land

89897

He is being so incredibly selfish. I understand it must be so scary dealing with an illness like that and living scan to scan but he can focus on being well and working. He doesn't have to give 110% to work, that's his problem. Im sure if his job is so understanding that 70% is enough.

Now the real issue is hes taking for granted that you will always be well and stable in your job. What if something awful happened and you ended up out of work and needing time to recover. How is he figuring that is going to work out?

I think you need a much bigger conversation with him.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121391015#Comment_121391015

I think is is very much still sick, you are not in the full if your health with stage 4 cancer, between the disease and the treatment.

However he does need to be considerate of his partner’s security, that is absolutely part of his responsibility.

Ezeoul

No contribution to joint funds = no access to joint funds.

And certainly no more of him freely topping up his account from yours, or spending at will.

Hopefully your credit cards are not joint?

You need to separate your finances and take control.

HazeDoll

Is there a chance this is a temporary madness that will pass? He is obviously somebody who used to take pride in his work, will he adjust to not having that outlet for his talents and energies? I have been briefly unemployed, at a time when I had no clear plan to sort myself out. The finances didn't worry me that much because I had no responsibilities but I absolutely HATED having to tell people that I had no job, I had finished my education, I had no concrete 'next step' in mind. It stung my pride, every time. I would imagine that soon enough your husband will become sensitive to people's enquiries like I did. His family will surely raise eyebrows when they realise he has decided not to contribute to his children's financial security. That sort of subtle pressure might nudge him towards reconsidering his position.

Obviously I don't know anything about his personality but plenty of people meet opposition with increased resistance. Is it possible that the more you pressure him the deeper he will dig in?

I commented earlier in the thread that you could make a realistic budget and present it to him in terms of the adjustments you are willing to make to support him. I still think that might be the way to go. Figure out your non-discretionary spending (mortgage, car, bills...), decide what you won't compromise on (saving for the kids' college fund, health insurance, pets...) and look at how much is left over as discretionary spending.

Where will you need to compromise to save money? Hobbies, holidays, entertainment, second car... these all need to be on the table. He needs to understand that you are prioritising your family's financial security over all the little luxuries he might have grown accustomed to.

I think he needs to arrive at the obvious conclusion on his own, in his own time. You need to make sure the gets there eventually.

Would I be right in saying that you don't believe the novel will ever be written?

road_high

I don’t think the subtle approach is going to work here-he’s already admitted as much and says he’s happy enough to continue as is because “life’s too short and his wife earns enough to support them”. The guy is in cloud cuckoo land and the op had been incredibly understanding, loving and supportive. I’m struggling to see what she had gotten in return apart from her wages being raided monthly

Sunriser78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121392293#Comment_121392293

Yes, he is healthy and well but he is still stage 4.

Sunriser78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121393258#Comment_121393258

Thanks. I've said that there'll be no holidays and he said he'd pay for it out of his money. But that won't include spending money, and he just doesn't understand that spending in the holiday is up to half of that again. But what about next year and the year after?

If he'd only get it into his head that less money means a change in how we live, I wouldnt have a problem. Who knows how long he has left - best case is another 15 years, worst is it all goes after the next scan.

Sunriser78

Thanks everyone.

I really, really appreciate your thoughts.