Dosing

2smiggy

Have the ~1.5 year old bullocks in side now for finishing. What is your dosing of choice ? pour on, injecting , back the throat ? We seem to try something different every year. Just looking for opinions !!

mr.stonewall

First thing here is to look at the active ingredient, and switch if possible from what would have been used throughout the year especially with calves to break any resistance. Fluke is problem most years here, but this year its going to be a bigger problem. Using a product which will hit early immature Fluke will be important.

Route of choice here is through the needle or down the hatch. Pour on for lice once the whole shed has been done. This year its dosing each at approx 2 weeks after housing. Working with endofluke,bimectin injection and then at a later stage ectospec for lice

Cost is another factor, oral doses are cheaper compared to some pour ons.

Herxules

Is fluke only once a year on housing?

Worms every 6 weeks or so when on grass but only stock aged 6 months - 2 years or if they're coughing?

Lice once a year too?

mr.stonewall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121331475#Comment_121331475

Egg samples are the key to a lot of dosing

Fluke is a major problem here due to the wet nature of the ground

This is the dosing that has been done at grass. Suckler calves this year have only got one dose due to lungworm in the summer dairy bred calves have only received 2 doses. Store cattle only 1 again due to lungworm. A bit of rumen Fluke showed up in the store cattle and advice from the vet was to only do the ones that had dirty backsides.

A lot of dosing is not needed unless and is only feathering the pockets of merchants and drug companies

The winter housing time is a great chance to break the Fluke and worm cycles, with a bit of clever thinking and use of products. Some Fluke doses will require cattle to be housed for nearly 12 weeks before they will work. These are often where you have to dose twice in the winter.

Lice is condition that is in the environment and spreads quickly. The best job with lice is to do everything in the shed on one day. If there is issues in 3-4 weeks, do again and that will hit the remaining problem.

There has been a program with the DAFM and the vets rolled out where they will provide 2 faecal samples and a consultation with you for 30 mins. It's very helpful and informative. It's free of charge, ask to see are your vets doing it and when they are coming to do some planned work it can be easy to do the consultation then. The vet asked if he could see the products used, the ahi beefcheck profile on icbf. Having this it gave a great picture of where small effective changes could be made. This year it was to test prehousing for Fluke about 2-3weeks pre housing and to test again 2weeks after dosing. With the year that has been in it, I left off the test before housing. But will test after I finish the dosing.

The key is to make sure we have the products we have and that they will be effective in the future

greysides

The Parasite Control TASAH programme is over for this year.

mr.stonewall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121335478#Comment_121335478

Is there any inclination it will run next year

Hard Knocks

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121335478#Comment_121335478

From looking at the results are you seeing a massive increase in worms compared to last year

funkey_monkey

https://www.cattleparasites.org.uk/app/uploads/2022/03/ParasiteControl20214674_211109_WEB-Cattle-only.pdf

OP - I use this as a guide.

@greysides can I dose with a Triclabendazole oral drench for fluke and also use an Ivermectin based pouron for parasitic control at same handling? Is it the vet that would know about Triclabendazole resistance or how do you know prior to selection?

@Herxules - see bottom of link above for info on injecting.

Sami23

Apologies for slightly highjacking but when yer doing dung sampling is it advisable to gather pools from say suckler cows and their calves separately or do ye just pool them altogether.

Reason I'm asking is I'm thinking of doing it this year for the 1st time but haven't weaned them yet and they are in the shed together now.

Diarmuid B

Yea probably best off having separate pots for the cows and calves. Give you a better overall picture for dosing them then.

limo_100

When dosing for rumen fluke at housing do you have to wait for it to mature same as liver fluke?

greysides

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121335659#Comment_121335659

I haven't heard. I'd guess it will.

greysides

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121336406#Comment_121336406

I didn't do many at all this year so 'no comment'.

greysides

can I dose with a Triclabendazole oral drench for fluke and also use an Ivermectin based pouron for parasitic control at same handling? Is it the vet that would know about Triclabendazole resistance or how do you know prior to selection?

As far as I know, yes, but the disclaimer is to read both datasheets.

You don't know about resistance prior to using it. Only way to check would be 'before and after' samples.

greysides

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121339635#Comment_121339635

Yes, because cows might not (probably not) need to be done for worms while calves will most likely need to be done. Watch for exceptions in the cows and treat those individually.

greysides

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121339742#Comment_121339742

Standard advice for Rumen Fluke is to not dose unless you've previously had a problem or there's indications of a problem after doing the other dosing.

With RF, it's the immatures that are pathogenic. Having eggs from adults doesn't necessarily indicate you have a RF problem as they are often present without causing problems.

mr.stonewall

@greysides what is your opinion of dosing at housing or after housing. Is it a good time break parasite lifecyles with the exception of lice. Just a humble farmer here and not in the veterinary world. The environmental conditions for these parasites reproduce have be removed and it only dealing with whatever burden they are carrying at that time. Looking at the typical , stomach and lungworms and Fluke.

Mortan

Pour-in treatments are easy to apply and relatively inexpensive. However, they may be less effective than other methods and may cause some discomfort to the animal. You can consult.

Sami23

Have a weanling here who has started coughing over few days.

He was housed 10 days ago and was dosed with Dectomax 4 weeks ago. What would be best to treat him with now. I have Ivomec Classic here or the Dectomax again maby ?

Also notice the weanlings are very scuttery in the shed even though there're on hay since housing to try and dry themselves and the cows up after the wet grass. Not weaned yet.

Would have expected them to be drying up a bit by now and not sure why they so scuttery including the cows ?

Tia

Lime Tree Farm

https://animalhealthireland.ie/assets/uploads/2023/08/PC-FactSheet-Anthelmintic-Guide-July-2023-FINAL.pdf?dl=1

Animal Health Ireland - Listing of products available in Ireland for parasite control in cattle 2023.

Well worth doing a print out - handy to have in the medicine cabinet.

tellmeabit

Them guys used to have a planner for dosing ie typical year what one should be dosing for, when and what animal type, calf, cow, heifer. Anyone have a copy of it by chance?

2smiggy

thoughts on just using Closamectin pour on ? We have clippers, so will be going on a freshly shaved back

Conversations 3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121340481#Comment_121340481

Parasite control guide 2022

https://www.cattleparasites.org.uk/app/uploads/2022/03/ParasiteControl20214674_211109_WEB-Cattle-only.pdf

Sami23

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121340053#Comment_121340053

Anyone any advice or thoughts on this

White Clover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121341358#Comment_121341358

My advice would be dung sample that weanling and talk to your vet about vaccinating all stock for ibr.

Sounds like Rumen Fluke from what you describe.

Count Mondego

@greysides

Can you advise, in your opinion, what is the best vaccination policy for buying in weanling this time of year. I buy a few batches in Oct/Nov from marts. The day after they arrive I inject with IBR Live Marker and Bovipast, as well as giving an them an Ivermectin injection. I house them for the first week until they settle down and try to let them out. If cases of pneumonia arise, they tend to happen a week after they land.

I give the wormer as often in the weeks after arriving they can be coughing and it's hard to tell if it's from hoose or the start of pneumonia, other than temperature checking them.

Is the day after arrival too early to give them the pneumonia vaccines, I've heard it argued that you should wait a few days for their immune system to pick back up after the stress of the mart.

TIA

funkey_monkey

Is pour-on uptake via the skin or hair follicle?

I thought it was skin, but someone told me hair and said that applying to freshly clipped backs was a bad idea. Right or wrong?

Lime Tree Farm

It couldn't be the hair, absorbed through the skin. The follicles would remain after shaving

greysides

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121339865#Comment_121339865

My policy in the past would have been to dose at housing. It gives about six months free of parasites at a time when they are getting the most expensive they get. It also prevents the carriage forward of parasites into the next year.

My thoughts now are the same except modified by FEC results if someone is willing to do so. It may be possible to exclude some groups from testing as they simply don't need it.

greysides

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121341358#Comment_121341358

Basically, talk to your vet. There are several possibilities and with their knowledge of your farm and general area they are best placed to give you specific advice.

greysides

Can you advise, in your opinion, what is the best vaccination policy for buying in weanling this time of year. I buy a few batches in Oct/Nov from marts. The day after they arrive I inject with IBR Live Marker and Bovipast, as well as giving an them an Ivermectin injection.

I'd suggest IBR Live and Rispoval Intranasal, both intranasally. That would give you the quickest vaccinal response.

The dose you use may not be the best option as there's a reasonable amount of resistance to it. Hard to know exactly what's best. Levamisole has the least risk of resistance but you would have to dose a second time at housing as it doesn't cover type 2 worms.

I house them for the first week until they settle down and try to let them out. If cases of pneumonia arise, they tend to happen a week after they land.

I give the wormer as often in the weeks after arriving they can be coughing and it's hard to tell if it's from hoose or the start of pneumonia, other than temperature checking them.

Is the day after arrival too early to give them the pneumonia vaccines, I've heard it argued that you should wait a few days for their immune system to pick back up after the stress of the mart.

You're never going to have the optimal option here. I reckon you need to vaccinate asap.

If the weather was reasonable and you didn't think they'd breakout, I'd be thinking about leaving them outside. Less confinement to spread virus and probably what they're used to.

Mortan

When it comes to administering medications or treatments to cattle, there are different methods available, and the choice of dosing method may depend on various factors such as the specific medication, the desired effect, ease of administration, and the expertise and preferences of the person handling the animals.

Ak84

In relation to dosing at housing.

Would it not be better to let the parasites remain in the animals over winter, letting them build natural resistance. The parasites c an not complete their life cycle in a shed?

I imagine no extra burden as they not ingesting new parasites from the grass.

mr.stonewall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121354276#Comment_121354276

Looking at the example of Fluke. If left untreated animal performance will suffer greatly and in extreme cases to animal death due to damage of the liver. Having a look at the lifecycle of Fluke it needs the host of the mud snail for it to breed and then its ingested by the animal to continue the next stage of the lifecycle. With winter housing it give the best chance to break this cycle. Think of the Autumn we have had it was perfect for snail and the up take of liver fluke. Housing cuts the access to the snail and stops up take of the larvea. The only Fluke you have to deal with is the Fluke currently in the animal and not what can be picked up via larvea

Lung worm leads to the damage of the lungs and higher cases of pneumonia and again death. Chronic cases leave the animal on a tightrope

Dosing at housing is an animal welfare issue. Now we are encouraged to use sampling pre and post dosing to only use the correct product. Even organic famers can does again based on evidence and sampling, but with a doubling of withdrawals.

Water John

A lot depends on the size and age of animals. Weanlings need different regemes to stronger cattle. I'm organic so all dosing is based on level of parasites. I would certainly only dose stronger cattle as needed.

Lime Tree Farm

Lung damage

893bet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121354302#Comment_121354302

Given you can’t sample for lung worm how do you work it( just based on coughing?

same for lice/ticks? Just based on visual news?

Base price

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121354828#Comment_121354828

Yes and wet weather like this summer/autumn which is prone to hoose pneumonia. You will hear them coughing when moving them or when calling them to the feed troughs.

On the advice of our Vet we treated all the bought in spring born dairy x beef calves with the equivalent of Levacide injection on the 14th of Sept (the day of the herd test reading) as there was a number of them with a persistent (tongue out) dry cough. TBH there wasn't much improvement after when they came to the troughs for meal and we had to treat a few for pneumonia. Again on the advice of our Vet we treated them on the 7th of Oct with Dectomax. We had got them weighted for the dairy/beef scheme a few days before so we knew their weights. Thankfully they haven't looked back and are thriving.

adne

Does endofluke cover stomach and lung worms in stock under 1 year?

Water John

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121356174#Comment_121356174

Neither, only fluke.

adne

That's what thought but assistant in vets was adamant covered worms.

Does weanlings with endofluke today, how long before I could go again with something for worms? What oral dose best for worms?

Lime Tree Farm

Looks like the only oral dose is Levamisole for lung/gut worms only, according to my new Bible.

funkey_monkey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121356231#Comment_121356231

Fenbendazole and Oxfendazole based Benzimidazoles will also cover worms along with tapeworm.

Can't say I recognise any of the products in the range though.

epfff

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121354936#Comment_121354936

Dectomax is the the business.

The longer it stays at the price it's at the better.

greysides

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121356196#Comment_121356196

Possibly confusing Endofluke and Endospec.

Conversations 3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121354828#Comment_121354828

You can test for Lungworm, costs a bit extra I think.

countryjimbo

Really useful advise in this thread, thanks for all the input lads!

mr.stonewall

The link here maybe of benefit to show the Fluke problem this year. Just found it on Met.ie.

https://www.met.ie/liver-fluke-forecast-2023

Diarmuid B

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121354828#Comment_121354828

You can test for it, just request it as part of your faecal test (fluke and worm). Costs a little extra but it’s worth it

greysides

In the SE, I'm suggesting that in lieu of particular suspicions, farmers delay fluke sampling until before/after Christmas, for cattle. This is due to time between intake and egg laying (10-12 weeks). Livers from local lambs in the local abattoir are not showing up fluke yet.

The forecast would raise my concern status a bit but I'm just not seeing them.

You'd need to be more careful with sheep than cattle.

Livers in lambs from Sligo, Mayo, Donegal have already been obviously infested for several months.

Base price

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121379443#Comment_121379443

You really need to talk to your Vet. She/He will have local knowledge of your area. The only thing that I recommend when housing your cattle is apply a topical lice treatment (Spot-On, Spotinor etc) to all your stock and repeat it again in three weeks.