What needs to be done here?

dublincc2

I was looking at this house as someone I know bought it recently, what sort of alterations need to be done to this place? It’s an absolute mess and looks like it hasn’t been touched since the 90s. Is a complete renovation on the cards?

https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/33-st-macartans-villas-carrickmacross-monaghan/4696933

L1011

Windows, doors, insulation, kitchen, bathroom, heating likely needs a complete overhaul, may need a rewire. That could be done over time but a rewire is exceptionally disruptive.

Rows Grower

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058321259/what-needs-to-be-done-here

You come across as a very caring friend.

I'm sure the new owners will appreciate you starting this thread on the biggest public forum in Ireland.

RichardAnd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121329715#Comment_121329715

I'm always raise an eyebrow when anyone posts asking advice for a friend.

That aside, with regard to the house, the short answer is a lot of work. The floors may be okay as they look pretty solid, but that wall-paper would be a concern. If you strip it off, you could find all sorts of issues underneath, so you'll probably have to get it re-plastered. Beyond that, you'll almost certainly need a rewire, and notice how they don't show any bathroom in the photos. That means it's probably a write off, so add that to the list.

Basically, you'll be parking a large skip outside that hour and filling it. Once the house is gutted, restoration can begin.

Princess Calla

I think the 90's is being too kind.

As others have said rewire.

New kitchen and bathroom.

Rip out all that wood and closets.

Wallpaper down.

Looks like some mould in one of the rooms , figure out cause and address it.

I don't think this is a house you could move into and do one room at a time. There's nothing there I'd say is salvageable.

dublincc2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121329823#Comment_121329823

They are on a tight budget, I haven’t been to the house myself but they sent me the listing, would it be feasible to wait until they have saved up? Bear in mind they have a three year-old child as well and they have been renting in apartments prior to this.

Tippbhoy1

Nothing has been done to that house since the 70’s I’d say, and that was to retrofit the heating.

It’s a complete gut. Make sure the roof is ok, the attic is dry, and start then to clear her out. Hard to know what condition the floors are in but you might get to keep the stairs.

Windows. Doors. Heating/Replumb, Electric rewire, insulation (wall and attic), plastering, new bathrooms, kitchen, doors/skirting, flooring.

herbalplants

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058321259/what-needs-to-be-done-here

New windows and doors, rewiring. Bare in mind with rewiring means stripping the walls so plastering all walls, new bathroom, new kitchen. Best to do most work before they move in. Hope they got the house cheap.

Princess Calla

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121329896#Comment_121329896

Did they go into this with their eyes closed?

As mentioned already the work is going to be messy. So I wouldn't fancy living there while it's getting done.

I do think rewiring, bathroom and kitchen are priority especially with a young child.

Bathroom will be around 10-13k that's what I was quoted for mine, last month.

Kitchen, I haven't a clue but even essentials of white appliances you'd be looking at 1-2k and that's just going bog standard. I'm guessing as there's no pictures the kitchen is a shambles.

Chasing the wires for the electrics will mean each room will need to be replastered. I'd be very reluctant not to get the electrics sorted on a house that hasn't been updated in decades.

Old houses have a happy knack of giving you a few unwelcome surprises.

At a very conservative guess I doubt you'd have change from 50k especially if you don't have skills or someone who can do mates rates.

Padre_Pio

50k even if you could do most of the work yourself and you were being frugal on your purchases I would say. Even a cheap fully fitted and furnished kitchen could be the bones of 20k including flooring, lights and appliances

As others have said it's probably best to gut the house and start over.

However there's nothing to stop your friend moving in immediately so long as everything works. I would turn the heating on full blast for a few days and dry out the place first. It looks damp.

I would do the whole upstairs first then downstairs. Put your beds in the living room. Pull down the upstairs walls and ceiling, rewire the upstairs, and replaster everything.

When upstairs is done then at least you have bedrooms and storage. Then I'd do the downstairs. That'll be tough as you'll lose the kitchen for a few weeks.

Probably lose the shower as well for a week.

It won't be easy and it won't be very safe for a young child. It's also dirty work and the house will be filthy for at least 6 months. Definitely would not recommend.

James 007

Take a full two weeks off, gut it & have some friends lined up for 2 day stents to assist. Large skip outside & fill up with all the wooden fittings.

Check floor for existing insulation, check to see if suspended timber floor.

Air out the whole house, the room with the damp seems to be due to a lack of ventilation, unless the roof gutter is leaking down the wall causing dampness in this way.

As above post you won't see change out of €50k for all the professional work.

dublincc2

To add to the above yes I think they are aiming to gut the house. It’s unsalvageable on the inside, I’m not sure how long it’s been like that for but there’s a picture of Pope John Paul II in there so that’s a clue.

Also the area itself is of some concern, it’s a long row of houses on a one way street up a hill at the back of Carrickmacross town, and a very disturbing aspect is that when researching the area they found that the actual car that was used in the Omagh bombing in 1998 was stolen on the same street a few doors down. Because of this they intend to get the driveway modified to allow space for their car as to not leave it outside, both for the above incident and also damage from one way traffic on a narrow road. I personally think this is not a priority given the budget they are on but it’s their house.

They also are concerned about the heating in the house which (I don’t know the details) is prone to causing a fire. I believe the house is gas heated and there were some issues with neighbouring houses related to this, although more than that I don’t know.

They haven’t moved in yet, they are renting in Dublin where they both work but want a house of their own and I believe it went for around €140000.

RichardAnd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121330338#Comment_121330338

It speaks volumes to the scale of how much money has been printed and how out of whack the housing market is that that thing can sell for 140k!

Personally speaking, buying a derelict house is fine, but if the area itself is not suitable, then I wouldn't do it. You also mentioned that they have a child. One could not live in that house whilst fixing it up with a baby present. Between the dust and the noise, it simply isn't suitable.

Princess Calla

You seem determined to prove a point that they made a bad decision buying this house.

Yeah I wouldn't have bought it as you're really looking at another 140k to get it to a nice modern standard.

Cash aside I wouldn't have the mental capacity to deal with a full house renovation and the inevitable problems that will be found once the surface is scratched.

Trying to parent a child at the same time definitely not.

Personally I'd rather pay 240k for a "tired" house that only needs some TLC.

However, it's not me or you that is embarking on this journey.

If you care about the friendship, roll up your sleeves and give them a hand, while keeping negative opinions to yourself.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121329962#Comment_121329962

rewiring does not necessarily mean replastering (speaking as someone whose house is currently being rewired). you might need to backfill where cables were chased in walls, but that's not the same as a full replaster.

however, the house pictured may well need to be plastered anyway. there seem to be rooms which were not included in the photos; the photo through a doorway - the doorway with the picture of the pope above it, seems to show a room not in the other photos, and it looks in even worse nick than the others.

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121330854#Comment_121330854

True enough. In this example it's better to just pull down the plasterboard. I would also look at the studs. Be afraid the timber is rotten and damp.

RichardAnd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121330854#Comment_121330854

My parents got a rewire on their house when they bought it in 2005. It was a house built in the 1950s, so all the internal walls were solid brick. This meant that they had to be chased, and the dust created was brutal. There may be ways to keep it down, but it's a messy job one way or another.

magicbastarder

problem i found was that most electricians are not interested in house rewires - they have enough 'clean' work on new builds or commercial work that they don't want to take on dirty work retrofitting old houses. i guess if the house above was a strip out before anyone moved in might make them more likely to take it on. whatever happens, the rewire should be done before anyone moves in and the house is empty.

Bass Reeves

OP

Was the house vacant before they bought. If it was empty for two years they are entitled to the house refurbishment grant. It's 50k. As well if there is structural issue there is another 20k available.

Finally they can also avail of SEAI grants. All in all if the house is vacant two years up to about 100k in grant assistance available. By the look of it it was empty.

That is the route your friends go

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121331571#Comment_121331571

Just to be clear: the house refurb grant is up to 50k or up to 70k if it is derelict...

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/housing-grants-and-schemes/local-authority-housing-grants-and-supports/vacant-property-refurbishment-grant/

blackbox

People's expectations have changed so much in the last few decades.

In the 1970s that would have been a perfectly acceptable house to live in - it even has central heating.

Once you get the heating working there is no reason why you couldn't live there - far from luxurious and the decor would be first to go. If you are any way handy and determined, over a couple of years you could get a lot of work done yourself, room by room.

Far preferable to living in a house share or with your parents.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121331995#Comment_121331995

Yes it's up to buy by adding the SEAI it's a real option to modernize a small house like that. Put another 20-30k with the grant money and you are looking at a serious amount of work that could be done.

Replumb, rewire, new windows and doors, upgrade insulation and heating system, new kitchen and flooring. The derelict is more if any structural issues needs to be addressed which would cover the roof.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121332064#Comment_121332064

This is what we have explained many times about the comparison of house price now and 30,40 or 50 years back. The difference in the standards and quality of houses is totally different

Princess Calla

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121332064#Comment_121332064

To a certain extent I agree with you.

I have friends who put a tent up inside 😂 but they were bouyed up by youth, and the adventure of it all*.

In theory once you've running water you don't need a kitchen. You could survive with a slow cooker, camping stove, kettle and microwave, or a combination.

The electricity would bother me, I would prefer to have it up to code before moving in.

You can rough it to a certain degree, but they have a young child to think of too. The place needs to be safe for a child, plus personally I'd prefer a decent working bathroom especially when children are involved.

*They did say at the end they'd never do it again. It was fine at the beginning but inevitable delays etc pushed timelines back etc.

RichardAnd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121332592#Comment_121332592

People in the past certainly had lower expectations, but as mentioned above, comparing then to now is apples and oranges.

herbalplants

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121330854#Comment_121330854

Trust me, I know what I am talking and that house needs replastering.

herbalplants

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121331571#Comment_121331571

Are you sure you can get 100 k assistance in grants? Or you just guessing... Have you tried yourself to get this assistance and received it!

Princess Calla

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121332736#Comment_121332736

Well it wasn't that long ago my friends did it....I'm not that old 😂😂😂😂

Kaylami

I'm pretty sure that house has been empty as long as I remember. And I'm in my thirties. I've an aunt that lives along there so would pass it on a fairly regular basis. Rodents would be a concern as well as damp and mould behind and that wood.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121332755#Comment_121332755

Here are details on the scheme.

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/housing-grants-and-schemes/local-authority-housing-grants-and-supports/vacant-property-refurbishment-grant/

And here is SEAI grant details

https://www.seai.ie/grants/home-energy-grants/

The vacant property refurbishment grant is run by your local authority and the SEAI run the energy grants

dublincc2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121332839#Comment_121332839

Are you aware of the Omagh bombing connection?

Boardnashea

Put the JFK photo back up over the fire. That, with the other lads hanging already should keep everything in good order.

JCN12

In terms of the area, if the worst thing that has happened was the IRA boosting a car back in 1998 for a bombing, it can't be too bad 25 years later. 😅

JCN12

Looks more aesthetic related from the photos. A decent budget kitchen, light bulb and fresh lino will not cost €20k though. Some of the things being floated in this thread.. 😅

If the bar is set at fairly decent 80s/ 90s, it should be straight forward and simple enough to make a nice home.

Cuddlesworth

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121334490#Comment_121334490

Sure, besides the fact that the back room looks like it was flooded at some point or had a serious leak in it. The state of that flooring versus the other rooms, the base of the wood paneling and the lino lifting in the hallway all seem to me like serious water damage.

Its a gut job either way, houses are not meant to be left unlived in and its clearly been sweating from hot cold cycling for years. Not sure why anybody would argue otherwise, if you put that up on the rental threads people would laugh at it as being unlivable.

And then you have the problem of either doing it right, or doing it wrong and then doing it right. The right way is to gut everything back to brick and wood, replace windows/doors, insulate everything, rewire, replumb, new heating system, re-plaster, then new kitchen/bathroom/flooring etc. And feel free to cheap out on everything else, like kitchen units, tiles, whitegoods etc. They are easy to upgrade in the future, the core of the house is not.

dublincc2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121334184#Comment_121334184

It was a pretty bloody awful bombing if you remember it or have any knowledge of the incident. Not saying that it’s a reason not to live there I suppose it’s just a bad mark on an area.

Also there was another incident on the same street where an elderly person was killed in a burglary with the house set on fire.

It is a quite and mature area nonetheless, which is partly why it was chosen for them moving out of Dublin.

dublincc2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121334730#Comment_121334730

Externally there would be work needed done as well I assume? The windows and doors etc.

JCN12

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121334991#Comment_121334991

Yes, I remember it - terrible, terrible. But it is hardly a reflection of Carrickmacross. Not sure if you have ever passed through, but it is a nice little town.

JCN12

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121334730#Comment_121334730

The surveyors report would highlight such major issues. I would assume they have bought the house with their eyes open, if indeed it was flooded.

Trying to diagnose flooding etc. from a small number of photos is assuming worst case scenario. 🤔

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121334490#Comment_121334490

20k should be fairly accurate if the owner isn't doing the work themselves.

Gut old kitchen, new floors and tiling, new walls and painting, rewire, new sockets and lights, new kitchen units, extractor fan, oven, hob, fridge, dishwasher, microwave.

You'd need a tiler, electrician, kitchen fitter and maybe a plumber.

You could do it cheap with second hand stuff and the cheapest everything but that's not what the OP asked.

And that's before we talk about windows and doors.

Princess Calla

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121335303#Comment_121335303

It's the fact that there are no photos of the kitchen or bathroom that's indicating worse case scenario.

You don't think the house is that bad, a view obviously shared by the new homeowners.

Everyone else is expressing an opinion on what they'd do to get the house up to a standard they would like for a family home.

For me, I'm very much "do it right first time" mostly because I'm lazy and I don't want to have to do it again in 5 years time.

For me I'd hire a home construction/renovation company and let them sort it out everything and bring the house to a modern day builders finish. That way you're not chasing individual trades people. Obviously that will bring the project in at a higher price, but for me paying someone else to deal with headaches would be worth it. (Though I honestly wouldn't have bought this house to begin with)

RichardAnd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121335367#Comment_121335367

My dad rebuilt his kitchen by himself and it still came to about 6k for materials and the few things that he could not do himself. 20k is a good sum to allocate for a new kitchen, but it probably won't come to that.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121335707#Comment_121335707

You could pay 3k or 50K+ for a new kitchen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121335677#Comment_121335677

If the vacant house grant is applicable that is the way to go if they can do without the house for 8-12 months

RichardAnd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121336103#Comment_121336103

50k if you want handmade cabinets and marble counter-tops. If you just want a basic kitchen with basic appliances, it won't cost anything close to that.

Princess Calla

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121336103#Comment_121336103

Yeah hopefully they can avail of every grant going. It will certainly take the sting out of the cost.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121336355#Comment_121336355

The vacant house grant along with the SEAI grant makes the modernising of those small terrace two and three bed houses very affordable. Yes you have to get them to B rated but your cost along with the grant should be no more than 20-50k if even that. Financing it is the hardest part but most credit unions would work with you I wound imagine.

The biggest thing is to assertain if it is applicable

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121336129#Comment_121336129

There's nothing in the OP's post that indicates the quality or the workmanship.

20k is a good middle of the road sum. On the good/fast/cheap triangle, I wouldn't cheap out too much on a kitchen, you'll only be replacing it in a few years.

That said, even the cheapest Ikea kitchen for that size is the bones of 3 or 4k delivered. Appliances are another 2k for basic stuff. Even a basic sink and tap is €300.

That's before floors, walls, electrics, and all the labour involved, and I guarantee the tiler costs more than the tiles.

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121335707#Comment_121335707

That is still pretty expensive for self build but it also depends on what people class as remodeling a kitchen. Some include the white goods and for some that also means a washing machine and a dryer. Then the materials being used can be radically different such as a granite top versus a Formica top. Bathroom and kitchen costs by tradesmen has always been extortionate but has gotten much worse.

Got a quote once for a kitchen which I priced the materials for and it was going to be 16k and 3 days. Materials were 4k so I asked how many people would be doing the work and I was told 3, 2 fully qualified people and an apprentice. So apparently 12k including vat was for labour. Had little choice as time was important. Came down to see progress and there was the apprentice on his own the fully qualified people never spent a full day there. There is no way that kid even got 2k for the work.

RichardAnd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121336666#Comment_121336666

The reason my dad did it himself was because he was quoted 21k for the work. The floor needed to come up and be relaid, so there was a fair amount to do, but it's still a lot.

The days of getting anything done cheaply are over. We can thank the state for that due to its lockdowns, money printing and other such chaos that it's chosen to create.

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121336800#Comment_121336800

Yeah, that's labour rates for you. Most tradesman nowadays probably base their labour quote on earning €2k a week per person, and you the customer have no choice but to pay it.

Unfortunately blaming the government does you no good when you've a house to renovate and a wife and baby to look after.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121336560#Comment_121336560

Traditionally the price of materials and labour were the same the noughties broke that link. However from 210-14 it was back again. Now its 2.5-4 times materials.

I doubt OP will be spending 15k not to mind 20k on a kitchen for that house. They have other priorities. I saw PC sums allowed for kitchens by builders lately none exceeded 12k and they were for a bigger house than that. The kitchen/ dining is 19X10 so it is narrow compared to houses build in the last 30 years. Also the house is in Monoghan and costs will not be Dublin or large urban centers costs that some are quoting here.

This house needs a fairy substantially refurbishment. It has two open fires the present central heating systems is at least 30 years old. The house needs new bathroom as well as windows and doors.

I be getting the SEAI audit in and apply for the refurbishment grant and go from there. I be budgeting 8-10k max for a kitchen, the same for the bathroom. I seriously consider an extension to allow for utility and downstairs toilet. But it would all be decided by my budget.

RichardAnd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121337012#Comment_121337012

It doesn't solve the problem; I agree. However, we really, really need to see consequences for people in charge if and when they make mistakes.