EV battery degradation over time

AndyBoBandy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121352797#Comment_121352797

I have a Performance motor in my Model 3 SR+, so no matter how many times I’ve given it ‘the beans’, the motor has probably never gone above 60%-70% of its total output..

Zurbaran

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121353203#Comment_121353203

Is there data on this stuff? I've no idea how often they fail and which ones are more prone to it. Its just something I rarely see talked about. Maybe all electric motors are great but I think it's unlikely.

Ev fan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121351319#Comment_121351319

It will be interesting to see what the dealer finds out and tells you. I don't think that 6.2% degradation in 18-months is terrible - although I understand that your 1st battery performed better. My understanding is that you can expect to get the biggest degradation in year 1 at anything up to 5%. Subsequent to that it should settle down to 1 - 2% per year after that, assuming average mileage etc. The readout for degradation at 2 years will be interesting. By the way see my note elsewhere on fast versus slow charging- it does appear that fast charging may not be as significant a contributor to battery degradation unless maybe it is used excessively and at high charging rates.

Ev fan

Thinking further on degradation and older EV cars. I have a 2023 Cupra Born that I intend to keep for at least 3 years. One potential concern is that for whatever reasons I have significant degradation after 3 years - say for example 15 to 20%. This would lead to a loss in range of maybe 60km or so on a full charge. I have a car loan but not a PCP which means I can't hand the car back. So my options would be limited which may make hanging on to the car for longer the better option. Lower range means more frequent charging (at home) and more fast charging on longer trips- may not be a big deal provided charging infrastructure keeps improving?? There are plenty of 3 year old ID3 cars around now - I wonder what the dealers approach is on this or is it on their radar at all. Any thoughts and experience on this?

Buddy Bubs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121354345#Comment_121354345

Is there precedent to think that you'll have 20% degradation? That would mean a battery replacement in 5 to 6 years if it drops below 70. I've a 22 Born with 26k KMs on it in 13 or 14 months and apart from it coming into winter now, I'm not seeing any reduction in range from new. Maybe it has degraded slightly I've never tried to check or anything, certainly nothing I've noticed. A bit of slow moving traffic or throwing a few passengers in car would affect range slightly also. Or cold and wet weather.

Was doing under 15kwh over full charge in September I was pushing 400kms from full charge once I stayed away from high speed longer trips.

How are id3 owners from 2020 or 2021 getting on I wonder? Haven't heard any complaints and I read the ID threads quite a lot.

ejmaztec

After seeing people criticising EVs on the Polestar FB page, these two comments were posted by an "enthusiast".

Is any of what this fella posted believable, I have my doubts?

"you guys have waded way out of your depth here. EV batteries last over 30 years and can currently be 96% recycled. Basically, an EV battery lasts literally forever. Beat that with your engines, timing belts and annual maintenance for the whole life of the car.

Come on, guys. Think. Google. Anything."

When asked to prove it, this comment was made.

"7 years and 400,000km, fully electric. I’ve an 8-year-old Tesla with 92% battery capacity remaining. What would you like to know?"

He hasn't commented since, despite being invited to. 😜

SteelyDanJalapeno

Following up on this, just collected my id3 from VW they ran whatever diagnostics they have and confirmed the current soh was 92%

So my real world 0-100 and back to 0 test gave me loose results of 89%, give or take which wasn't too far off, glad to see it was better than that thou.

2.6 years and 75,000km with no regard for charging up to 100%, but I do rarely use fast chargers, maybe once a month

D_D

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121491949#Comment_121491949

Once a month is rare? In one year I've used a fast charger just once, I think that's rare...

SteelyDanJalapeno

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121492660#Comment_121492660

Definitely rarer!

I average about 12 full chargers a month, so I'd consider 1 in 12 relatively rare, my mileage is probably higher than yours.

Buddy Bubs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121491949#Comment_121491949

That's good, I've a cupra Born which I presume has same battery I'm doing about 25k KMs a year in it so good to know it will probably still be a very usable EV in 10 years time based on your numbers, although it's going to be the wife's car soon and mileage will drop so even better. She will happily keep it without looking to change.

sh81722

Decided to do Scan my Tesla check on our April 2021 manufactured Model 3 LR. The nominal full pack when new was 74.5 kWh, and the last time I checked after about 1000 km driven it had 73.X kWh. Now at 71069 km it's 71 kWh, so we have just under 5% degradation after 2Y 9M. Will be interesting to see how this progresses going forward. The number of charging cycles is currently 216 and I expect the battery to be still in fairly good health after 1000 cycles which will be in year 2032 (at 11.5 years old) when the car is expected to have approx 320k ODO reading.

The previous two new EVs, Nissan LEAF 2015/2018 were at 92/91% when driven 70k at 2.5/3 Y. The current second car in the family is a 2016 LEAF with 105000km is at 75% SOH at 7Y 10M. The early revision of the 30 kWh battery on that car is doing much worse than the 24/40 kWh we had on previous LEAFs. I would expect SOH of 80+% on the other two when they reach 8 years of age.

10-10-20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121354708#Comment_121354708

The theory there goes that a Li-Ion battery capacity will degrade at a moderate rate for an initial period (I think it was 3 to 5 years) and then the failure rate will lessen, so effectively you get higher loss initially, then a plateau, and then full cell failures much later on down the road.

I wait to see if that's true or not.

amdsquad

Just a heads up. BMW changes individual cells if PHEV battery starts to fail. My 2017 530e started to die 6 months before end of 6 year warranty. Car has had 50.000km on the clock at that time. Only half of the battery was replaced and hasn’t really improved range (3-4 km more) but all the transmission errors are gone so can at least use the car normally. 4,3k € invoice paid by them.

joe1303l

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121501962#Comment_121501962

Good to know but a good used replacement battery might be a better bet at that sort of money. There could be a lot of early 330E & 530E owners facing into this when out of warranty