Preferred method for putting up RSJs

amacca

I'm going building a bit of a shed here, extending an existing one and resheeting a portion of the existing bit...its a bit worse for wear but the existing frame/structure isn't too bad

I was thinking of digging a hole and putting in concrete pads with bolts cemented in to attach the rsjs/uprights to and then shuttering and pour walls

But the father is dead set against it, wants to Bury the rsjs in the hole, level them and then pour concrete...I know he would be ages bracing them etc etc and think the pads would be quicker, work as well, use less steel and be easier to erect with the likes of a teleporter etc

Any thoughts? will the pads work fine and be easier to erect with less faffing and less steel used or am I wrong? It will be a solid floored cattle shed

Also on a somewhat related note, he's not mad about diagonal feed barriers either but I think I'll have my way on that one😂

Anyone have any recommendations for decent ones with wood or stokbord on the bottom..

mickdw

If you have the length on the steel uprights, concreting them in is a valid method although abit old fashioned.

You can pour bases instead and cast in bolts. You can also use adjustment cones when pouring to allow some movement on the bolts.

Alternatively you could just drill for the bolts once steel is standing.

Is your father up to date on the cost of steel. Rsj are frighteningly expensive now so burying upwards of half meter at each upright is a needless cost imo.

lmk123

I suggest using reverse physiology

Mad about baa baas

I put up a shed in 2017 . It has 8 pillars..I bought a 20ft length of 18in corripipe..cut it in 2ft lengths and dug holes for them..filled with concrete and bolted the pillars to the concrete..working well so far for me..would have been a lot pricier to have the extra length in the pillars to Bury them in concrete

Water John

Diagonal barriers definitely stopped cattle pulling in silage here.

amacca

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121279515#Comment_121279515

If that's a joke it's a good one!

amacca

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121279512#Comment_121279512

What would you go for if it was yourself doing it out of curiosity?

I'd be using a teleporter or similar to hold up/erect the structure..I'd have a bit of help but a lot I'll probably end up doing myself, it's been a while since I've put up anything tbh

Wildsurfer

If you're putting up walls between the pillars just pour the whole foundation in one go and leave a little deeper where rsjs are going

K.G.

Personally if there isnt walls going in the shed I would bury them but if there s wall s in the shed bolting is fine

RightTurnClyde

Pads then drill and bolt. Keep the pads down a small bit (~5 or 6 inches) so floor concrete can run in around them later.

All sheds done here that way. Simple and 100%

kevthegaff

Bolted onto tip.of walls here, worked so far and saved on expensive rsjs

mickdw

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121279619#Comment_121279619

I'd just pour bases and drill in chemical bolts

Siamsa Sessions

Fella that did the shed here dug holes, poured and levelled concrete, then bolted the RSJs onto the concrete. No walls between them but I’ve feed barriers (diagonal) hanging on them.

Seems straightforward but you’d need to take levels to make sure the concrete base in each hole is at the same height in relation to where the roof will sit. Same length RSJ then for each hole

DBK1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121279767#Comment_121279767

That’d be the approach I’d always have used as well and all sheds are still standing! By far the simplest way of doing it.

anthony500_1

I put up a few sheds here over the last while, I dug a hole but don't over dig to deep, cut 45gal steel drums in half put them down the hole about 12in below the finish floor line, you can measure out the barrels, set them up square etc then when you have measured 500 times fill around the barrels to hold them in place, then pour the concrete level in each barrel using a Lazer and a reader(these can be rented cheap for a day and will give you a tolerance of 3mm to 5mm upto 300 meters depending on setting) then get sole plates welded on the bottom of the RSJ's and bolt to pads with chemical bolts. Pour walls then floor. I've 3 sheds done that way, some have walls some have feed barriers. All have stayed where they were put.

lmk123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121279606#Comment_121279606

It works with my aul lad sometimes

Dunedin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121279767#Comment_121279767

Same as that here. Last 2 sheds done like that and 100%

Tonynewholland

It's much easier to pour foundation and put in the bolts. Much stronger job and easier to line up a base with four bolts than the RSJ after

GrasstoMilk

We’ve 300 ft off feed passage here with no roof, just short pillars and all the pillars bolted onto pads an no issue

go the pad route, much easier to line up the pillars exactly

patsy_mccabe

gov.ie - TAMS - Farm Building and Structures Specifications (www.gov.ie)

Have a look at S.101 in the link above. It shows how to do it on page 36. Might as well do it right.

Kevhog1988

Your father's just creating hardship for you both op. Pads are the only way to go. You could sink holding down bolts into the concrete pads if you wanted and pour then or drill and chemical amchor. id put 2 layers of mesh in your pad with 50mm cover each way. Very easy to set up a template to suit your baseplate and level them with a laser level.

It's one of them jobs where a few hours of prep will save you on the long run.

farawaygrass

What’s the advantage of using chemical bolts over rawl bolts?

amacca

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121288067#Comment_121288067

Once they cure they create a very secure bond, no liquid ingress, less of a chance of mechanical failure I presume.....

Bass Reeves

@amacca if you want to get around him. Dig out the holes and put 3-4 ''of concrete in them you can then take the depth of these pads with a laser level. Get your RSJ's made up with plates bolt them to the pads and then put 12-15'' of concrete around them.

This is the way the shed erector did my shed nearly 15 years ago. If you have a mixer you will mix the pads handy enough. Pads need to only hold the upright for a short time no need to strut the uprights. Pin them into position on the pads and have the ready-mix on the way for around them

amacca

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121291898#Comment_121291898

Thanking you, appreciate it. I have had my mind made up anyway. I remember doing it the other way when I was younger and the hardship of it.

amacca

Any recommendations on self levelling laser and detector? I have bits and pieces to do indoor and outdoor including this shed. Might as well get the bit of kit myself.

Silverdream

If you are bolting down to a base you need to ensure the base plates are the correct size. I've seen sheds done with tiny base plates on the uprights that even got passed for grant spec, not worth a dam and outright dangerous too.

patsy_mccabe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121319089#Comment_121319089

I used this to put up an extension recently. Works fine over short distances. For €60, you can't complain. Spec'd to 15M. Only really works in the dark, you just need a bit of patience with it. No detector as such, just mark uprights with a marker, on the laser line.

Magnusson IM0301 Red Self-Levelling Cross-Line Laser Level - Screwfix

lmk123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121319089#Comment_121319089

Brilliant bit of gear, the 160 receiver gives you the measurements to the mm, you can set the laser at a grade too which is very handy for drainage trenches or yards that aren’t level

https://sisirl.com/survey-equipment-product/leica-rugby-620-laser-level/?gad_source=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI3rT0hISoggMV5o9QBh2xSwonEAQYBSABEgJWK_D_BwE

anthony500_1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121320192#Comment_121320192

Lecia would be one of the market leaders. Great bit of kit but for one off or very occasional use there a lot of money.

Huepar is a relatively inexpensive Chinese brand, they have a good reputation for being extremely good value for money and within the price bracket they are competing in, they come out as favourites for accuracy and longevity.

dohc turbo2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121319585#Comment_121319585

The small base plates are for the shutters to sit on the ground, so kept flush with the 8inch if the beam,

Limestone Cowboy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121319089#Comment_121319089

I've a topcon here. Brilliant bit of kit but maybe a bit on the expensive side.