Early Leaf - Quick Questions

Bawnmore

Hi folks,

Hoping to go see a '12 Leaf tomorrow that's well priced. We're looking at it strictly as a 2nd car for school runs etc locally and have never had an electric car before so have a few quick questions that might help before I go see it:

1. It has 8 bars and about 140k on it - what realistic expectation should we have for range in summer/winter?
2. Outside of checking for lights on the dash - is there anything else we should be checking that you wouldn't typically check on a petrol/diesel car?
3. What sort of charging times are we looking at on this gen Leaf?
4. For school runs, we do 3 x 35km roundtrips per day - should it be able to handle this with charging in between or are we being unrealistic?
5. What should we be asking about cable wise? Is it just the granny cable or should there be more coming with it?

Thanks in advance!

NIMAN

At a guess I'd say

1) 60km realistic range

2) not really

3) it will probably charge at max 3.3kw/hr, so if it was empty to full, maybe about 5hrs or so? I don't think Leafs as old as 2012 had the option of a 6.6kw charger. If you have to use granny cable, even slower.

4) I'd say its unrealistic to be honest. 105km per day and needing to charge in-between times.

5) you should get a granny cable and a type 1 public charging cable.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058319072/early-leaf-quick-questions

1. 50-70km
2. suspension, brakes, pads and general condition.
3. 3.3 kw on board charger so about 24/3.3 at home = about 7 hours or so.
4. No. I’d be plugging back in when you arrive home each time just to be sure.
5. it’s hit and miss on the early cars. Some came with a granny and no type 1 cable. Others came with the opposite. And others came with both. Basically the car will come with what’s there. You can decide if you wish to proceed at that time.

Have you got a home charger installed? Or plan to?

...Ghost...

I agree with Niman on all points. You are too close with the requirements and you should look for a more suitable car.

If you look from 2014 or newer, the better battery is in the car, but you should be looking at cars with 10 bars. Low mileage models will be what you want and ideally with the faster 6.6kW On-Board-Charger, so you can charge faster from home.

You would need a home charger installed capable of delivering the faster charge, which is around 6kW or 30Amp when in use. Most EV owners have such a charger. A grant is available to help with the cost....usually costs the owner circa 5-600 euro after grant.

NIMAN

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121267487#Comment_121267487

Re : point 3, it wouldn't be 24/3.3 as op said car had 8 bars, so probably max battery would be around 16, so 16/3.3 = 4.85hrs.

Would probably be 7 or 7.5hr with the granny cable from near zero.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121267595#Comment_121267595

Yes I was just giving the worse case scenario and maybe allowing for losses and slowing down and balancing towards the end. But 7 hours may be on the high side alright.

Bawnmore

Thanks for the quick responses folks. We're looking at it as it's cheap and to see how we might get on with electric for a future purchase. We'd rarely ever be relying on it fully, but if we could replace 2 of the school runs even it might be worth it.

It's this one that cropped up in the EV bargain alerts thread recently - https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/2012-nissan-leaf-new-nct/33576834

So for arguments sake:

• Trip 1: 8AM - 9AM
• Trip 2: 12PM - 1PM
• Trip 3: 2PM - 3PM

Intention would be to plug it in whenever it's parked, so would be charging between trips. Granny cable initially, but will be having home charger fitted with solar installation in next few months most likely.

zg3409

It won't have the range you need. Don't buy it. For 120km range in any weather you need a car with a 28 or 30kWh battery.

It will break your heart buying a car with a range that won't meet your needs.

Bawnmore

Alright, it seems unanimous - appreciate the honest feedback - will leave this one be and keep looking.

Tonto67

I disagree. With 8 bars you would start the day with ~14kwh usable in the battery, 1st trip 35kms would use approx 6kwh. you then have 3 hours to charge, at 3.3kw. Including the ramp down in charging speeds as you reach full charge you should get it back into the high 90s percent. Second trip use another 6kwh. Then charge for 1 hour at 3.3kw means you would start your final run with ~10kwh.

I think yours is the ideal use case for a leaf of this vintage. You should low ball the seller, he will find it difficult to find a buyer. I have a 2013 with 10 bars and found it very usable, I have since doubled the capacity with a booster pack in the boot which will do over 200kms on a single charge now.

You would need a dedicated charger that can utilise the full 3.3kw charge rate. Don't bother with the grant, the chargers are a rip off. Get an electrician to install a commando socket and buy a Portable mode 2 charger <300 euro. Ive been using one for over 2 years. I don't think links are allowed but just google it or I can pm it to you. Also, future proof yourself, get a 7KW version.

Hope this helps.

unkel

@Tonto67 - one of the best posts in this forum this year. Until you mentioned the booster pack you installed 😀 unless you did it yourself for very little money. And your insurer didn't up your premium because of this modification.

Tonto67

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121269719#Comment_121269719

Thanks for the compliment ☺️I did in fact do it myself for very little money, relatively speaking. It wasn't easy and it took a long time but it's been going strong for over a year now.... It's actually a modular system I built, so can be fitted and removed in 20 mins, I use it for occasional long trips. the rest of the time it's storing solar energy and powering my house.

Fantana2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121269778#Comment_121269778

That is very cool, deserving of it’s own thread.

joe1303l

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121269925#Comment_121269925

Sounds like a potential new business if the units can be built at a reasonable cost.

sh81722

Once you plug in religiously between the trips a 35 km return trip is not a problem on even the most degraded leaf on earth I think. And 8 bar car not a problem. It will take about 2 hours to top it up between the trips if you have a charging point installed.

One thing not mentioned regarding the early leafs is the frequently seen heater failure and the parts must be difficult to get a this stage. It's an expensive fix anyway and that heater absulotulely murders the range so I'd recommend a 132-> reg SV/Acenta/SVE/Tekna which not only have better battery chemistry but also the more efficient heatpump heating.

oinkely

I'd suggest looking for a 132 leaf with the 6.6kw on board charger and get a home charge point installed so you can top it up between trips and then you will be well covered. If you are using the max range on the car every day you will be saving a good whack over running petrol / diesel.

My 132 Tekna has the 6.6 charger, is down to about 80% or something like that and adds 1/4 of the battery capacity per hour on the home charger. Range would be around 100km (or up to 115) if driven easy.

You are looking for the one with the dark interior as the light interior are almost all the first gen Japanese made ones with only a 3.3kw charger.

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121271625#Comment_121271625

Already exists. A crowd in the Netherlands have perfected range extenders for early Leafs and they have franchised it out to companies in other countries. In Ireland it's this:

https://rangetherapy.org/

joe1303l

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121274887#Comment_121274887

I heard of Muxan before but I always thought they were so expensive you’d be better of trading the car up to an alternative EV with the range you need. The OP mentioned that it was done for “very little money” which would be the crucial part of such a venture.

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121275626#Comment_121275626

You thought correctly! It makes no economical sense to have it done by a commercial company.

10-10-20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121267457#Comment_121267457

Is using Leaf Spy and looking at the QC and Hx values not done these days?

That was my go-to for a purchase made 2 years ago. Has it changed?

sh81722

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121276143#Comment_121276143

It's still a valuable tool alright for example if buying a 30 kWh car to check the battery firmware version if the car is down many battery bars.

Orebro

Just in case you go to look at it, and someone has already mentioned it, but check the heater. Ramp the temp up to max and make sure it's blowing lots of hot air. The heaters in the early cars are prone to failure and the car is effectively a write off if it breaks or is not working as the matrix is buried so far in the car it costs €€€ to replace. Go for a 132 reg onwards, the SV/Acenta spec upwards has the heat pump. You can check it's a Sunderland built car and therefore newer battery chemistry if the chassis number begins with SJ - its on the windscreen so simple to check.

Bawnmore

I meant to come back and update this yesterday, but never got a chance. I bought it in the end - if it replaces a few school runs, great. If it can be charged in between to replace them all, even better. Worst case scenario, we sell it on again. There's only once or twice a week where it's actually needed needed when the other car is gone, so we'll play around and see what routine we can get out of it.

It's in lovely nick though - I trailered it back from Limerick to Galway, but it was dark by the time I got back so I left it at my parents house which was en route rather than trailering through the twisty roads out our way in the dark. Will collect it on Saturday.

I didn't get any great photos of it, but it's lovely little car.

Full stamped book and not a rattle or a bang out of it. Interior is like it's never been used. Thanks for all the advice folks - great to hear both pro's and con's before I went down for it.

A few questions:

1. It came with an onboard charger but not a granny charger. Is there an recommended Type 1 granny charger? I can see one in Screwfix and not a whole lot else - https://www.screwfix.ie/p/masterplug-10a-2-3kw-mode-2-type-1-socket-electric-vehicle-charging-cable-5m/872GV
2. Is the commando socket a better way to go than a dedicated charger via the grant? We'll want to get something sorted soon, but were planning on using the grant for a Zappi with a solar install in the future, but it won't be happening immediately.
3. How easy/difficult is it to get a spare key made?

sh81722

1. That will do but you could also ring around the breakers to see if they have original nissan one in stock from any 2011-2017 leaf.
2. A dedicated charger is the best. Get one without a fixed cable but leave a type2 - type1 cable attached to it permanently for a quick connection time
3. We got a spare from ebay and Nissan programmed it in. The blank emergency key we then got cut at a local key cutting service. But this was for a 2015 and I'm not sure if the fobs are the same. Best to ask place like autokey.ie.

glen123

Join Nissan Leaf Owners Ireland group on Facebook.

A member posted parts for sale an hour ago and what looks like brand new granny charger is one of the items.

Id try to buy an original if I were you.

unkel

@Bawnmore - well wear! Great to see one of the bargains in this thread go to a boardsie!

You forgot to share the most important bit though, how much did you get it for? And why did you trailer it? Not much in the way of CHAdeMO over in your area?

Bawnmore

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121277698#Comment_121277698

Thanks for that! Have called around a few breakers and none found yet - will keep trying. Would prefer an original alright.

Have been in touch about a key with Nissan (€360) and Autokey (€290) today. Both existing key and car have to be on site for them to do it, so will look closer for someone in Galway tomorrow.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121279836#Comment_121279836

Have requested to join - sounds like as good a place as any to find one.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121279983#Comment_121279983

Paid 3k for it in the end. He'd dropped it a few times on Donedeal over a few months (I think it was €4200 when I saw it 1st, then €3750 and finally €3250) and was dead set on getting the €3250 for it when I called 1st. I agreed a price with him over the phone before I went down so we wouldn't both be wasting our time. Lovely fella.

Trailered it as I'm altogether unfamiliar with the charging setup to plan a route and was on my own heading down anyway!

Bawnmore

Just to wrap this up - have it home now and have had a few spins in it and delighted so far. I read the comment above on checking the heating too late - I never checked that over specifically when I was buying it and I was actually worried about it, but it's blowing plenty of hot air so that's a relief.

Charging via granny charger so far and it's tipping away fine. Shows an indicated max of 106km when fully charged - drove it 66km home from where I dropped it and landed home with 20km left. Brought it for a spin today and did about 75km roundtrip and landed back with an indicated 11km left. So with charging in between it should be perfect for our 3 school runs I'd imagine.

Thanks again for all the advice here.

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121299368#Comment_121299368

To get the most out of it, drive it in mode "B". It gets you the most regen when applying the brakes.

unkel

@Bawnmore - nice one! That range is very good going for a Leaf that age in this sort of 10C weather, you can consider that a nice bonus.

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121299500#Comment_121299500

The early leafs dont have B mode.