Go Safe van parked on side of motorway where the sign says Garda Cars Only

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121262194#Comment_121262194

If you want to get technical as an aside (and not that relevant for the OP), then no. JC did revert away from the strict application in Kenny and back closer to O'Brien but it also extended the criteria to the case where superiors knew but subordinates did not. So the ignorance of the individual van operator is no longer an excuse if their superiors knew it was.

Once the judge has ascertained that the Constitutional right has been broken, they do not have discretion to allow it. Shaw was back in the 80's and involved competing Constitutional rights. They do retain discretion for other breaches such as breaches of the custody regulations or judges rules.

Slightly more relevant for the OP, Gardai can tag you anywhere. The vans cannot. For example, there has to be a camera warning sign for the vans to be in an area to tag you.

kirving

Isle of Man based....

My issue with awarding such contracts to GoSafe is that there is no evidence that they are effective in reducing road deaths.

When you look at collision stats released by the RSA where they attribute "speed" as a factor, they are not just talking about "braking the speed limit" as you would expect.

They are also including "inappropriate speed" ie: under the limit.

Speed cameras do nothing to solve this, and in some respects the one dimensional messaging about speed limits enforces the belief that 79km/h = save, but 81km/h = unsafe.

I'd love to know how many serious and fatal collisions actually occur below the speed limit, as we are throwing taxpayer money at a private company hand over fist, when we would see a far better return in my opinion, by investing in driver training.

https://thecurrency.news/articles/19567/dividends-fees-and-the-isle-of-man-how-private-investors-are-reaping-massive-windfalls-from-states-speeding-camera-contract/

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121262312#Comment_121262312

Where's the breach of constitutional right here?

ElisaAtWar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121262337#Comment_121262337

The conversation is interesting. I did just stop on a hard shoulder for, at the time, I felt was a justified reason.

Now it has been clearly pointed out to me that I was in the wrong. But at that moment in time I was so frustrated with these vans which hide on corners that they know could potentially catch a speeding vehicle as compared to the reason for these vans which was to monitor dangerous roads.

And this was the basis for my actions. It was not about putting others at risk but simply to say no. I won't have myself or others targeted by a solution that is more money focused than safety focused.

And I do appreciate how folks have called out my mistake but it was with the best of intentions

Seth Brundle

It was not about putting others at risk but simply to say no. I won't have myself or others targeted by a solution that is more money focused than safety focused.

What? The only drivers it targets are those breaking the law and there is an easy method to ensure that you don't appear on their radar (excuse the form of pun)!

As for it being money focused, the operators don't get a commission. If it was money focused then the fine would be a thousand euro rather than the current amount.

Still, your concern for it not being safety focused is hard to believe given that you pulled over on a motorway to take photos 🙄

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121262337#Comment_121262337

I never said there was. You brought it up. I said it was not that relevant to the OP.

GoSafe vans are not Gardai. Certain roles are delegated to them. I would need to look at what instrument delegates those powers. It might be more an administrative law issue. I don't have time to bother looking into it now. But as I said, and I said it as it might be something you are familiar with, they can only be placed in certain areas that are signposted. The same as a fixed camera can be. The Gardai can tag you wherever but the other methods can't. So that should give an indication that their powers are indeed limited.

GerardKeating

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121262337#Comment_121262337

The "Go Safe" operators are wearing incorrect hats when they take the pictures of drivers who are invoking their constitutional rights in breaching unconsitutional restrictions on their rights to excessive speed on sovereign highways and byways

.

mikeecho

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121265015#Comment_121265015

No legislation stating that signs need to be in place for GoSafe vans.

In face they have removed many of them, and not erected new ones on the newly designated zones.

ElisaAtWar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121265734#Comment_121265734

Since you are familiar with what the legislation does not state, maybe you can provide us all with what the legislation does state?

ElisaAtWar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121264494#Comment_121264494

As said GoSafe operators are more likely to cause an accident than stop an accident. Speed cameras that are signposted and average speed areas that are signposted are perfectly good. But coming around a corner, seeing a speed van and naturally slamming on your brakes no matter what speed you are doing is simply dangerous. As I said drivers focus on the road in front of them and do not constantly monitor their exact speed which if they did would be a highly dangerous practice

kowloonkev

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121262193#Comment_121262193

Who owns gosafe? Does that person have any family or business connections to high level gardai or politicians? Are all details of the contract in the public domain? Do they make more money the more people they catch, or is it a flat fee? What equipment are they using and who controls it and has direct access to it?

JohnC.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121265797#Comment_121265797

Sounds like the excuse of a bad driver.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121265797#Comment_121265797

Any incident as you have described is purely down to the driver and not someone parked along the side of a road.

kowloonkev

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121265981#Comment_121265981

Yes it is down to the driver but the idea of road safety is really to follow the statistics and instincts of all drivers. I don't know what the statistics say exactly but definitely I would say the reaction of a lot of drivers upon seeing a speed trap is to break.

All the more reason for hidden cameras on motorways I think.

JVince

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121265875#Comment_121265875

All that information is easily found.

Btw, The equipment records the speed and details of every vehicle that passes.

An image file is sent to Thurles Garda station and a roads policing officer reviews all vehicles registered as going over the prescribed limit and decides if a fine is warranted.

Go safe have no input into it. They simply provide the images

Jim_Hodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121265797#Comment_121265797

That reads like you are one very poor driver to be honest.

kowloonkev

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121266035#Comment_121266035

That's fine then regarding who controls the data.

Basically this company is acting like a temporary speed camera that needs a van and a person to sit in it, when alternatively they could install permanent hidden cameras.

I guess it depends on the cost of the service vs the cost of having permanent cameras installed and operating. My guess is they'd rather pay more in the long term than take a short term hit for long term gains.

dickdasr1234

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121266057#Comment_121266057

'Permanent hidden cameras'?

Really?

dickdasr1234

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121265797#Comment_121265797

"As said GoSafe operators are more likely to cause an accident than stop an accident"

There truly is no limit to people's stupidity.

JVince

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121266057#Comment_121266057

Permanent cameras don't work as a motorist will know it is there.

And yes, the person in the van sits back and simply is there to ensure the equipment is running.

They are permitted to do other things whilst monitoring the equipment, including reading books, watching videos, having a cup of coffee etc.

EchoIndia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121262211#Comment_121262211

In the UK, I think the signage is "Authorised Vehicles Only" - clear but less definitive.

KaneToad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121256766#Comment_121256766

Also he legally has to give you a glass of water if you request it.

mikeecho

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121265790#Comment_121265790

What legislation in particular are you referring to?

mikeecho

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121266035#Comment_121266035

Correct.

Every car , van, truck, bus that passes the van when it's setup is photographed, and it's speed recorded... Every vehicle, be they over, under or at the speed limit.

The van goes back to it's depo at the end of the shift.

The data is transfered to Dublin, then sent to thurles, where the fines are processed.

The Gardai tell GoSafe where and when to park up, and for how long.

The Gardai determine what leeway is given (usually 8km/h)

If the ticket isn't paid, the Gardai prosecute the case, with the GoSafe driver/operator appearing as a witness for the state.

As for using fixed cameras, well that's a cost, and they are limited to certain locations, and liable to vandalism.

The GoSafe model, is more like leasing.

Deub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121265797#Comment_121265797

Really?

Where did you read/see that GoSafe operators are more likely to cause an accident? I would be interested reading about it.

Your post has a smell of “it is never my fault but always someone else fault”. If you are speeding (or think you are speeding) that you feel the need to break when you see a speed van then, if there is an accident as a result, it is your fault and no one else.

Do you think we should accommodate speeding drivers by stopping speed controls so they don’t have to break?

dickdasr1234

AAAAAGH!

BRAKE!

FishOnABike

The conversation is interesting. I did just stop on a hard shoulder for, at the time, I felt was a justified reason

Taking photographs is not a justified reason. If you feel it is, please learn to drive. Stopping on the hard shoulder of a motorway is dangerous.

Do not stop or park on the motorway except in an emergency or when you are told to do so by the emergency services or Gardai. If you breakdown move your vehicle to the hard shoulder where possible. Call the Gardai noting that they will require information about your location. You and all passengers should then wait for help on the embankment side of the motorway well behind the crash barrier. 

from https://www.garda.ie/en/crime-prevention/crimecall-on-rte/crimecall-episodes/2022/28-february-2022/traffic.html

McDougal2

Also, who do I report an illegal sign posted over a road speed sign advertising they buy used cars, etc? You know the ones the plaster all over the place.

mikeecho

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121266484#Comment_121266484

Your local council / corporation, or if it's a road maintained by the RSA, then egis lagin, if it's a toll road, then contact the toll operator.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121266025#Comment_121266025

If some drivers brake immediately when they see a speed trap then what you're seeing is sh1te driving which shouldn't be accommodated. Drivers can't travel on autopilot: they need to be consciously aware of what they doing and if they're not then get them off the road!