Accident - Driver not admitting fault

ifeelabreeze

Hi folks,

Just wanted your opinion on this - it's motoring related so I think it fits?

My sister got into an accident today.

Lady ahead of her along, slowed down and veered in left off the road (into a bit of a lay-by) without indicating, sister indicated and went to overtake, the woman then swung out (doing a U turn) and my sister (Audi A1) hit the side of her car (Lexus GS).

Her rear passenger door is dented but my sisters car got the worst of it; bumpers fecked, foglight, headlight too, quarter panel and the bonnet all got a bang.

My sister was visibly shaken, the woman got out of her car, talked for a minute or two (apparently didn't apologise, ask if she was alright or anything, she just commented on the damage), my sister didn't even have chance to get out of the car, she just kept apologising and crying, then when my sister said her dad was on the way, woman gave her phone number and said she was in a rush and left the scene.

Didn't pick up the phone until a good few hours later too.

When she did, she was abrasive.. my father commented on her leaving the scene and only giving her number she replied 'well what do you expect me to do?', she then asked if it was my sisters car (yep), if it was insured (yep) and claimed she was turning into one of the houses there (she didn't she continued her U turn and headed off), by all accounts she was a wagon on the phone, never gave insurance details either.

Parents brought my sister to the garda station, told them the story, gave the details, Garda rang the lady's phone and told her she had to hand over her insurance details within 2 days.

Got off the phone and she was 'not pleasant' according to the garda.

So now we're in limbo waiting for the details.

Sister doesn't have a dash cam.

There's roadworks going on just up the way and there's no line on the road.

It happened very local to us, 2 minutes from home if even that.. so we know the locals, my fathers thinking of going chatting to the person in the house there, just in case your one does attempt to say she was pulling into that house.

In my head it's clean cut, but there's no hard evidence.. so is it?

How likely is it that she's found liable because my sisters going to be out around €3k if not.

Has anyone here dealt with insurance after a tip where the other person didn't admit fault?

Thanks

s2019

So something like this diagram?

The Lexus driver can claim a lot of things to get out of this - eg she was just pulling out and your sister was speeding ect.

This is the importance of having a dash cam.

https://www.smartdraw.com/accident-reconstruction/accident-reconstruction-diagram-software.htm

ifeelabreeze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121235677#Comment_121235677

More central, my sisters driver side wheel would have been over the central line

Princess Calla

I imagine the insurance companies will battle this one out and settle 50:50.

Probably not what you want to hear.

Dial Hard

Agreed, let the insurance companies sort it out, but if I was in an accident and the other driver's Dad got onto me rather than the driver themselves, I wouldn't be a bit impressed.

ifeelabreeze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121236361#Comment_121236361

Are you a 21 year old girl?

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121236349#Comment_121236349

I kind of think the same unfortunately.

It's a bad situation to be in, and without dashcam footage is a "she said she said" situation..

I wish her the best of luck.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121236361#Comment_121236361

Why do you need to be impressed? What difference would it make to the circumstances of the crash?

Panthro

Let insurance deal with it. Probably wouldn't contact the other lady directly.

Ginger83

The fact is the other driver pulled out on to the road when you had the right of way and your statement and the damage will add up.

I can't see how the other driver can explain the damage. She would have to claim something ridiculous like she was turning and you overtook her.

10-10-20

In my opinion leaving the scene of the accident will work against her when it was obviously you sister's intent on calling the Guards to the scene.

Write-up the whole story and email it into the insurance company. Ensure that every detail is covered - colour of the car, length of time behind the vehicle before it the incident, speed, distance, nature of the journey... Describe the road and the buildings off it; include photos of the road where it happened. Reference the incident ID & Garda's name where it was reported at the Garda station. Keep feelings and ambiguity out of it. That way the insurance company will see that you're presenting what you see as fact and the other driver can just make it up as she goes along. A strong and well documented case should swing it for you better than 50/50.

Good luck, and keep us posted!

Op you are getting way too worked up and stressed over this. I wouldn't even contact the lady again, let the insurance companies sort it amongst themselves

Ginger83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121236490#Comment_121236490

Yes and the other driver proceeded with her U turn when leaving the scene of an accident and not into the house as originally claimed.

ifeelabreeze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121236529#Comment_121236529

Not sure if all that is fully visible on the live photo, think it might just show her starting the turn.

Her NCT is out by close to 11 months - can that be put down to the backlog?

Ginger83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121236537#Comment_121236537

No but a statement from the owner of that property would prove it or maybe they have cctv

ifeelabreeze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121236563#Comment_121236563

My thoughts exactly, we know relatives of the owners

Ginger83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121236572#Comment_121236572

Yes I would have a statement from this property saying that they do not know and did not receive a visit from the other named driver. They may even have cctv

Princess Calla

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121236457#Comment_121236457

She didn't pull out though.

OP said she slowed down , his sister then indicated to overtake. (Which is a valid manoeuvre)

Now I could be interpreting it wrong.

However, what I can't understand is how the sister went into the back passenger door (I assume on drivers side) of the other woman's car.

To me that suggests the sister should have had better reaction time to what was happening Infront of her. The other woman was about half way through a manoeuvre when the collision occured.

To me if she was overtaking and the woman pulled out the impact would have been along the sisters passenger side of the car.

Again apologies if I'm understanding it wrongly.

Which shows the importance of a very detailed report going to insurance company.

Dial Hard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121236387#Comment_121236387

I was when I rear-ended a very unpleasant woman on Leeson St. and I still didn't feel the need to get my Dad involved.

Anyway, I've just copped your username and remember your thread on you all wanting to get involved when your sister wasn't getting on with her housemates so I think it's probably fair to say I just don't "get" that level of involvement in grown family members' affairs so I'll leave it there. I hope she gets sorted and her insurance doesn't take too much of a hit.

Ginger83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121236605#Comment_121236605

Yes a drawing is also needed. Could it be viewed as the OP not reacting in time?

I remember when I started out I had a carvan. One day while reversing I heard a thud and when I got out there was a motorbike on the ground. There wasn't a mark on my car so I don't know if it was a blind spot or a set up. Anyway I was given a quote for £510 and then I couldn't contact the biker. Weeks later he wanted my insurance because he wanted 3.5k

The insurance Assessor said that the biker made a major mistake by already having the repairs done before damage could be assessed. He had also repaired both sides of the bike. In the end he only got his £510

road_high

Something similar happened my brother before. He was turning right in an industrial estate into a premises and car behind him overtook and into front side of his car. Insurance companies ended up going 50/50 as his word against his etc. You have to be so careful with people not indicating etc and give them a wide berth if not sure.

Won’t be what you want to hear either but as I understand your case your sister effectively rear ended the other car. I would document everything that happened and forward to the insurance company

ifeelabreeze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121236691#Comment_121236691

Did she though considering she hit the side of her car?

The ladys NCT is out by close to 11 months, you can check online if it's booked in (if it's not it asks to select a date, if it is it asks to cancel or reschedule, and hers isn't booked in.

FishOnABike

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121236721#Comment_121236721

If her NCT is out by 11 months and she left the scene of the accident it would be interesting to find out if she had valid insurance and a full driving license.

She has already committed two offences, leaving the scene of an accident and driving a car without a valid NCT. It wouldn't surprise me if there was another one or two to add to that.

Deub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121236759#Comment_121236759

It is her word against OP’s sister. She left the scene but how can you prove it?

She could argue, they agreed not to call the guards and just exchange phone numbers.

The NCT issue might put more blame on her but, unfortunately, I think the insurances will pin them both at the end (50/50, 70/30 or whatever) and both will see an increase on their insurance premium.

CrazyEric

If your father is anyway competent with paperwork etc I would go to a solicitor and send a letter to the person claiming off them. Once you involve your insurance company they just say 50 -50 and put up both premiums. As your sister is 21 and most likely an "N" driver her policy will go through the roof.

antodeco

How are people saying it's 50:50? You can't turn let alone U-turn on a road if the road isint free.

ifeelabreeze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121236976#Comment_121236976

That's exactly what she tried to do, but there's no proof.

She claimed after the fact that she was turning into a house there - so we're thinking of heading over and having a chat with them to see if they'd be willing to state it to insurance/sign something.

The guard did say the video my sister has is great to have, it basically does show her continuing her U turn

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121236976#Comment_121236976

Yeah I’m with you on that- we don’t have the full story obviously but I think there’s already indications of a few things in the sisters favour- leaving the scene of accident without insurance details, coming out onto a main road from a side road/lay-by into oncoming traffic- I actually don’t see any sister blame here right now- it sounds like the other driver wished to turn around and drive back up the road/ they thought they had time to cross - if you pull into a lay by that’s it- you’re now subject to the rules of the road before getting back on it- I’m my view she feiced up

honda boi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121237001#Comment_121237001

Could she say she was turning into that house to turn around?

As in drive into the driveway and reverse out

Ginger83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121237001#Comment_121237001

She has a video? Did you not say there was no dash cam?

Ginger83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121237037#Comment_121237037

Not if a video shows her pulling in to a lay by

antodeco

Either way, if the side of her car was hit, it clearly shows she drove sideways out onto the road. Like I can't understand the arguement that she's not fully at fault. If you drive into th side of someone when you are driving straight along a road, it's hard to argue that the other person isint at fault.

It's like blaming someone for getting in the way of your bullet!

Princess Calla

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121236976#Comment_121236976

Well you can't drive straight into an object that's already on the road either.

I'm not saying the woman didn't do something absolutely stupid and the fact she left the scene and NCT is out doesn't really work in her favour at all.

However I don't understand how you'd hit the back passenger door (I still don't know if it's the driver side passenger door or passenger side passenger door) when you are in an overtaking position without seeing the car Infront of you doing something utterly stupid.

It would be interesting to know how far the woman was Infront of the sister when she slowed down into the layway, did she come to a complete stop, did she just use the layway to expand the arc of a right hand turn U-turn. .....or was she trying to do some sort of reverse U-turn.

Then the old chestnut what speeds were involved.

ifeelabreeze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121237695#Comment_121237695

It's the passenger door on the driver side, possibly the very edge of the drivers door too, my sisters light and surrounding area.

She said the woman turned in, was on the gravel, sister indicated and moved over to go around and then the other driver swung straight out and my sister tried to get out of the way but they still collided.

My impression is the woman was well off the road, my sister was slightly towards the median, then when the lady swung back out my sister moved further right and they still collided.

pummice

Had a similar crash a few years ago, the insurance companies lay the blame as 50/50, so basically they screwed both of us

antodeco

Apologies I missed the bit about the driver being on the other side of the road overtaking

ifeelabreeze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121238136#Comment_121238136

Not on the other side of the road.

JIdontknow

What does the video show? Even if she doesn’t have an nct it may not affect the blame / liability. Not sure a letter from the household would make a difference lady could just say she was just turning or whatever, by the sounds of it she’s liable to make up something. So to summarise the lady pulled over into the hard shoulder, your sister went to overtake and the lady pulls out and attempts a U turn as your sister is overtaking… and the damage is her rear driver side door etc?

ifeelabreeze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121239281#Comment_121239281

It's not really a video just a live photo (if you hold it down it plays a few seconds), you can just see her swing around, but it cuts out when she's straddling the road, wheels are fully locked facing opposite the way she was originally going but that wouldn't account for much.

So yep as I know it, she had slowed down, moved off left without indicating, and then my sister indicated and moved out (like you would a bike or the likes - I'm guessing), and then the lady fully locked the wheel and swung out, sister tried to move out of the way, woman kept coming and they collided - my sisters light, front quarter panel and the bumper. It also damaged the bonnet just above the light - it was basically the light area towards the quarter panel, so not head on. From what I know she wasn't on the opposite side of the road.

Damage on the lady's car is to her rear passenger door - just behind the drivers door, not sure but it could well have left a mark on the drivers door too.

If the lady was to claim she was turning - wouldn't she still be at fault, she was either entering a house or doing a U turn.

billo516

Who took the video/photo ?

mk7r

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121239430#Comment_121239430

What's the speed limit on the road?

From your description I can see it going 50:50. Is the woman in the car an idiot? Yes of course but if she was all the way off the road on the left and managed to turn and drive all the way to the middle of the road and beyond (your sister hit her rear door so she must have been across the white line at that stage if your sisters drivers wheel was also across the line as stated) then your sister should have been able to stop or at least avoid the collision given the time she had.

Does the fact the woman have no NCT matter to the claim? No it makes no difference and is a matter for the gardai.

Keep in mind even if you get her to admit fault the insurance companies may still decide to go 50:50 as they make the final decision, not the gardai, or the drivers in question

Good question, was the sister using her phone and it's a live iPhone picture haha

mightyreds

Sounds like the video is after the accident of the damage and other person driving off, this will go to a he said/she said in my opinion and maybe go in favour of your sister if the other person turned while your sister had started her overtaking manoeuvre but the there is proof not exactly sure how they will try establish the details.

edit: got mixed up and corrected

fabvinny

You should never admit liability even if you are at fault! I was involved in an accident like this a few years ago,I was turning right,had my indicator on and a car went to pass me out and drove in to the side of my car. It actually went to court,the guy who hit me said i didnt have my indicator on(I absolutely did)The Judge said even if I didnt have my indicator on,the guy passing out should have taken a moment a assess what was going on in front of him.I was on L plates at the time and I won the case 100%. Now maybe doing a U-turn is another story..

billo516

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121245012#Comment_121245012

Not after the accident and other person driving off according to this ...

It's not really a video just a live photo (if you hold it down it plays a few seconds), you can just see her swing around, but it cuts out when she's straddling the road, wheels are fully locked facing opposite the way she was originally going but that wouldn't account for much.

chooseusername

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121245894#Comment_121245894

So you think as the car in front pulled into the left, op's sister indicated to overtake and at the same time took a photo just as the car in front swung right across in front of her? really?

We'll wait to see what op says, but I read it as the op's sister took the photo after the accident as the other driver completed the u turn and drove off.

If the op were to post a link to the part of the road on Google maps it would help to understand better.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121236759#Comment_121236759

Perfectly fine to leave after handing over details if there is no major damage or other offence committed

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121246378#Comment_121246378

I don’t believe she left details- only a phone number and was reluctant to engage after that .

It all depends how this happened - did the lady pull in, stop then drive back onto the road or was it all one manoeuvre?

Those saying 50:50 I’m sorry I don’t get that - regardless of whether you’re indicating or not when pulling in, if you’re pulling into a lay-by, you can foresee a number of things but that person pulling back out again onto the road is not one of them - time and again I see people pulling in and only see the indicator going on after they’ve done that - I don’t expect such people to pull back onto the road again without stopping to make sure both sides are clear.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121246406#Comment_121246406

A phone number is her details. It would suffice. Now if she gave a fake number, then there would be an issue. If it went to court she'd just say "I gave her my number and trusted her to call me with her insurance details later given that she ran into me"

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121246411#Comment_121246411

She came out onto a main road from a lay-by - of course she was going to get hit 😀

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121246560#Comment_121246560

Did the other driver fully leave the road before turning?