Leaf Replacement for Long Distance Commute

Garzard

Bought a new 40kWh Leaf last year which in Dublin, fully suited my needs at the time. But most of my circumstances have changed since and have now moved to Donegal. I mostly WFH, but have to be in Dublin every few weeks for office blocks, family visits etc, and doing this with the Leaf is just causing headaches. Even when making the drive on a full battery, I have to stop each time for 25-35mins to fast charge even without A/C or heating running.

If I could make one trip without stopping plus at least a fair portion of the way back before needing to fast charge, it’d help massively (no charging in work but hopefully that’ll change in time). The market seems to have improved with many options for the budget (lower €30k’s). Would prefer to keep to an EV and happy to go secondhand if miles are reasonably low, but also willing to consider PHEV as local electric driving in my current location and Dublin while I’m there would also be nice to keep.

To start off from ones I’ve seen so far within budget, would a 64kWh Kona (2020-2022) fit the bill as they’re down as having 450km of range? Would it realistically achieve a decent distance back on the return drive? Or for PHEV, a Kuga? Would certainly be practical and with many extras, but I’ve no experience with either vehicle. Would also appreciate input from anyone doing a similar distance in EV. 

the_amazing_raisin

Honestly I'd be trying to get a Model 3 LR and just charge it in work

Ideally you want something with a big battery and good charging. The Kona and E-Niro have long range, but the charging is a bit crap by today's standards

I'd take a look at the ID.3, possibly the Tour version with the 77kWh battery, or the ID.4 with the 77kWh battery . They'll charge at 135kW if you plug in under 15%

If you're willing to stretch the budget to a Polestar 2 then that's another great option for long distances

You might want to enquire about getting a workplace charger, or installing a destination charger at one of your relatives homes. Having the car topped up before heading home makes life a lot easier

There's also Ionity hubs going in near Derry, and possibly another near Sligo which would be handy for heading to Donegal

They're months away at least though, so if you're in a hurry then the bigger battery is what you need

Garzard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121225388#Comment_121225388

Thanks for the suggestions. A Polestar 2 though starts in the high 40's and would be well beyond the budget. A secondhand M3 SR, a bit less but still quite high. There's a good few ID4's at the limit of my budget and less, albeit with quite high mileages.

Work charging isn't on the cards yet, although it's something I've been pushing for.

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121226513#Comment_121226513

Yeah I was thinking the Polestar 2 would probably be a stretch, didn't want to discount it though

If there's no work charging then I'd definitely go for as many kilowatt hours in the car as possible

ID.4 would definitely be a good shout if the battery is in decent shape (it should be). The warranty expires at 160,000km so just keep that in mind if looking at high mileage cars

There are battery health reports available, so you could book in for one of those

Otherwise an OBD scanner and Car Scanner app should be able to tell you what you need to know

the_amazing_raisin

I think one of the main challenges you'll be facing is that a lot of the charging hubs near Dublin are still in planning or construction

There's hubs planned on pretty much every motorway into the city but the big question is when they'll get built

So bigger battery is better in this scenario

Looking at ABRP, you should be able to do the journey with maybe a single charging stop in an ID.4 (I've no idea where in Donegal you are so I picked Killybegs at random)

https://abetterrouteplanner.com?plan_uuid=6d15de5b-12ce-4517-aa46-ce7c3a469f36

F00t13f4n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058317750/leaf-replacement-for-long-distance-commute

My dad has a 201 Kona for the last 18 months. He drives it like the 70-odd year old man he is, and so regularly gets >500 km range in the summer. Last December we drove from Kildare to Galway and back without charging (left at 100%, home with 13%). The high speed charging isn't particularly fast compared to other cars, but with that range maybe that's not a huge issue?

munsterfan2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121227015#Comment_121227015

Picked up a 2nd hand Kona last week from van monster for 19950, 2019 model with 50k on clock. He seems to get them fairly regularly

innrain

I'd say Kona 64kWh is the good option. The 2019 ones if they are not UK import are pretty poor specced with no adaptive cruise control or forward collision warning but still having rear camera. They are pretty nice rides with 200 and a bit hp and a very good efficiency which kinda beats the MEB cars. The interesting stuff is that most of the 2019 had their battery replaced in 2022ish so basically have pretty new battery which means less degradation for the years to come. The 2020 models have improved AC charging 11kW over 7kW, which might not sound much but for a return trip I think it is important you get to charge a couple of hours at the destination. I may be subjective but all in all I'd say 2019 are better value atm

Here it is a mock up trip with the 2019 Kona Donegal-Dublin-Donegal. It estimates you need to add 23kWh to complete this trip. If you manage to charge this amount in Dublin while you work or whatever then you don't need to stop at all. Here is where AC charging matter as it means 3h+ for 2019 Kona vs 2h+ 2020 and later models.

For reference a 2021 M3LR would still need some charging but a bit less, 15kWh which can be achieved in less thank 1.5h AC charging or less than 5 mins at proper DC speeds. A ID.4 Pro with 77kWh and heat pump would require, according to ABRP 29 kWh while the lack of heat pump would add some 3kWh to the required charge. That is all compared to your current car which is estimated to require 3 charging stops and 56.6 kWh of charge.

unkel

He has no work charging in Dublin, lads!

Vote from me also for a Kona 64kWh. They have now lost half their value after 4 years and should have fairly low further depreciation as it is the cheapest long range EV on the market, which helps too. It's not a well specced EV, and it is very small, but if that doesn't matter to you, it's a solid choice. And to answer your question, it can do 450km range alright, but not at motorway speeds and even less so in winter

You don't say where in Donegal you are? Makes a huge difference in time / distance to Dublin.

Garzard

I'm near the Donegal Town area, so about a 230km distance from Dublin. Would agree on the Kona being small, but they have the extra comforts from the ads I've seen and that were a godsend in the first winter with the Leaf - heated seats and steering, good enough infotainment, Android Auto and at least basic cruise control?

As I said in the OP, if PHEV might be a better option now because of my distance, secondhand Kuga ST PHEV's are also within budget which would have equivalent extras, plus a much larger boot which would be helpful - having recently made the move here and as we'll be adding furniture etc to the house for another good while going forward. For local driving and while working in Dublin, I could rely completely on EV mode with it, while not having to worry about range on the drives between. Though I'm mindful of increased fuel costs, maintenance and depreciation which could come to bite later on.

kanuseeme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121228003#Comment_121228003

Some good mpg figures in this forum https://www.kugaownersclub.co.uk/threads/phev-economy.21006/ 50 mpg on motor way with 2 % battery.

A phev's economy is cumulative, while your 460km commute might cost 53 euro @ 6.2l/100km @ 1.85e/L and 11 units of electricity, do another 460 km on electricity your now at 3.1 l/100km and guessing 23.5 kwh/100km, increasing electricity and decreasing fuel use.

With electricity @ 15 cent the same trip is now 42.6 euro.

If you went for an id4 you start with 11.55 euros worth of electricity and top up by 30 kwh @ ionity 73 cents =33.5 euro. a saving of 9 euro.

The more electric driving done the better the overall consumption is, only you know how much you do around Donegal,

This car has a smaller engine and a little more range, small boot I would imagine, price is around the same, and I would imagine nice and comfortable.

https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/mercedes-benz-a-class-202-a250-e-amg-line-auto-ph/34924535

Redfox25

Tesla m3 would do that with a short top up on route. Should be a few at 30k or thereabouts available.

I stop for 10 mins in carrick on shannon each way for a coffee and it works nicely, this is running dublin to donegal via sligo. Not a million miles off your route.

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121228003#Comment_121228003

If the single short stop in an EV on your way back home doesn't bother you, do NOT get a PHEV. Worst of both worlds, you'll save a bomb in the BEV over the PHEV in total cost of ownership

Agree with @Redfox25, the best cars on a budget to do this are Kona 64kWh and Tesla Model 3. Up to you really on your preference and your budget, which one to buy.

zg3409

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058317750/leaf-replacement-for-long-distance-commute

Kona has very small back seats and small boot. The newer model is bigger so check the older model for size fit. I believe most/ all don't have adaptive cruise control if that's something you need. The eniro is similar but bigger back seats, bigger boot, similar range.

You don't mention which part of Donegal, far north inishowen is a much longer run. There is a new "hub" going in at Donegal town supermacs but that probably won't help you.

The real range of the Kona is 260km-450km. Probably more around 300-350km of high speed motorway driving. Some Donegal routes have lots of 120km/h motorway and driving at top speed will get you on the low end of range.

You possibly should make it all the way one way, but in the depths of winter you may struggle. Dropping top speed can help. Note the Kona and eNiro are not particularly fast at public CCS charging (faster than the leaf) when compared to some newer cars particularly those designed for high speed charging such as Tesla or 800 volt kia/Hyundai cars. As a result you could easily need 45+ minutes charging at some point on 2 way trip. If you can't charge while parked in Dublin you might want to stop on way down for 15 minutes and again on way back for just enough to make it home. The second stop could be easily 30 minutes and remember starting a charge with a low battery percentage is typically quicker than a higher one, so on the way back charging may be faster. Depending on the route kells is a good stop with multiple esb chargers at the services and another one in the town when the others are busy.

Depending on how you value time/hassle/cost lifestyle a diesel may be more suited to these type 300km then 300km return trips. A 64kWh battery won't exactly do the return trips without a healthy fill up.

kanuseeme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121232553#Comment_121232553

LoL funny and utter bullsh1t .

€32,850 2020 new €41,499 = 8650

€31,500 2020 new 37500 = 6000

€24,500 2020 new ?????? 39000 lol I think I will just ignore that one.

so all cars are nearly the same km, 50000 +- 4000km

the kuga never plugged in and drinking petrol @ 6l/100km @ 1.85 euro = 5500 + 6000 = 11500 or in other words 2850 euro extra, hardly a bomb, not even including the cost of charging the model 3, not to mention the mere fact of 40km of electric every day by just pluging it in at night , which would amount to 80% of the km on it over 3 years, 80% less fuel used, without a bother.

Applying my use with the kuga, 1.9 l and 14.1 kwh /100 km =2812 euro, just a mere 162 euro more compared to the depreciation alone of the model 3

LMFAO, who believes this crap,  total cost of ownership my ar$e.

I am surprised you did not mention buying a fluence or a 2011 leaf, they are actually increasing in value.🤣

kanuseeme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121233011#Comment_121233011

The diesel kuga 2020 is 29500 euro, whats the point of it? Any small amount of electric driving would make the phev more economical .

kanuseeme

So far I have seen, ABRP mentioned twice, cars made for Dwarf kids, model 3s that have lost 10% of there battery and value dropping on both like a stone, a longer trip and a compulsory purchase of coffee, the pee break was excluded, and purchasing a diesel.

The OP twice asked about a phev, and the best was not to buy it because of total cost of imaginary ownership.

If it was your money, you would hope you would get better advice.

Redfox25

<<mod snip>>

OP, look at all the options and pick the one that suits you.

any ev will mean you will need to change your home charger as lead is chademo ?

kanuseeme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121233539#Comment_121233539

Lol shows how much you know, chademo is whats used for DC charging, older leafs had type 1 sockets, newer leafs type 2 for AC, I would agree look at options that make sense, drinking coffee and going the long way is not sensible. funny.

<<mod snip>>

innrain

I'm on ford.ie website and the cheapest phev kuga I found, at promotional price before delivery and others is at 44.6k

Some options include alloys1k, ACC 1.3k, heatead seats 800, LED lights 1.7k which are mostly included in the EVs aforementioned. Should you whish leather seats ST X starts at 48.8k

I can't stop the feeling that if countries would use their resources to be energy independent the two wars happening right now would be in the past. For that we need to be forward thinking and challange the status quo.

Garzard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121233539#Comment_121233539

CHAdeMO for DC only - otherwise it's Type 2, the same as the rest. I've posted in other threads on the issues I've been having with the Zappi install but it should finally be done in another week hopefully!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121235061#Comment_121235061

Your Price Summary there is for new orders, but there's used ST-Line PHEV's from 2020 for lower-mid 30's - e.g:

https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/2020-ford-kuga-st-x-plug-in-hybrid/35119577

https://www.carzone.ie/used-cars/ford/kuga/fpa/202308241161172?journey=Search

theknightbg

Why not get a newer Leaf Long Range. We just looked at Nissan Leaf Long Range 212, that was the highest spec and was under 30k. With a trade in the price will drop significantly.

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121236099#Comment_121236099

That's crazy money, you'd have a Tesla Model 3 for that sort of budget. Better spec, longer range, faster charging, not with the obsolete CHAdeMO only DC fast charging

Redfox25

Op, would you rather stay with an ev as you have had a leaf, going to a previous or diesel/ petrol car will be a step in terms of tech.

If you get a chance maybe update your first post with a budget and typical long journey and you can get advice from there.

Good luck with the search.

innrain

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121236061#Comment_121236061

Because the previous poster calculates the depreciation. The 2020 kuga at 30 k has a sticker price of 50k if we speak about st x. Then its depreciation jumps from 6k to 18k+ and the narative changes.

kanuseeme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121237011#Comment_121237011

https://changinglanes.ie/ford-kuga-2020-pricing-for-ireland/

Casati

I know somebody with a similar enough use case - except they go to Kerry rather than Donegal so slightly longer. They drive a Niro PHEV which I think would be a good option - reasonable space - on par with the Leaf at least, enough range for most of your trips in Donegal and also if you use it properly you will be driving on electric when in Dublin. Plenty of spec inc ACC. Best of all they are very efficient driving on petrol - he sees 5 to 5.5 litres per 100km.

Another decent option would be the Leon. V refined car with plenty of poke too and this particular one look well spec'd

Used 2021 (211) SEAT Leon 1.4 FR Hatchback Petrol Plug-in Hybrid Automatic (204bhp) in Cork (carzone.ie)

Garzard

Apologies folks for not replying sooner to yesterday's posts.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121236099#Comment_121236099

Gave it some thought, but it's as @unkel pointed out. And can't say whether it's as bad with most other EV's, but I've found the Leaf to be pretty poor with range on motorways or when above 80/90kph. I was living in Kells for a few months before the recent move, still pass through it regularly to pitstop for fast charging and the Leaf consistently loses close to half a full battery on that 75km-odd stretch of M3 between there and Dublin. And that's at conservative speeds, without A/C or heating working except to clear the windows. Coming through Cavan on the N3 also saps the battery a lot. I think with that, a 60kWh Leaf may make the 230km trip in one go, but still at the limit of real range.

Garzard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121238566#Comment_121238566

Interesting you should mention the Leon as we were out to test drive a 2018 FR diesel yesterday for the OH to replace her i20. Really enjoyable drive even as a passenger and I was looking at ads for the PHEV version on the way back. So PHEV could certainly be a good option - might try and give one a test when I'm next down.

Garzard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121236935#Comment_121236935

Feeling very much 50/50 between sticking fully with an EV or sidestepping over to a PHEV. One good reason to hold onto the plug-in element of either is that I'll have the home charger in soon. No charging in work for the foreseeable but I'll be making a case with other colleagues to get that facility in, so this could change any time. A PHEV would still fit my needs for nearly all local Donegal and Dublin driving - really only ICE for driving between locations but I take @unkel's points against it also. Budget-wise, max in the lower €30's but it might be more sensible keeping it lower (mid-€20's).

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121240314#Comment_121240314

For a mid 20s budget you are touching on a Tesla Model 3. If you've never been in one, go test drive one. It's pretty much the opposite of your Leaf, it's extremely efficient.

Redfox25

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121240314#Comment_121240314

Good for you, look at all options. Lots of strong opinions on here. Drive a few and likely one will stand out for you.

Garzard

Posted similar questions as the OP in other threads such as the M3 and ID4 quite recently, but saw no harm updating this thread separately.

I approached my employer on having chargers installed, seeing the growth of EV's among other staff and a large number of vacant parking spaces - I found that they'll be brought in for the office's own fleet when it soon upgrades to EV, but the idea for staff chargers was refused, even on a limited scale and with an option of a payment system per kWh. I'm not even sure if it'll ever be revisited at any point.

On the Leaf itself - even though it's on PCP until mid-2025, I was browsing recently and found that the dealer had a 2023 Model 3 LR (€41,000) among its used stock. I knew it was a very long shot at best, but I explained my circumstances re. needing greater range and enquired if transferring the PCP to this would be possible. They were polite, but pretty clear in not wanting the Leaf back, and in any case I'd need to upfront the entire outstanding finance (more than the Leaf is currently worth) plus another 10% deposit at least for the M3 I'd called about. It was exactly the response I expected, but given the M3's price I thought it was worth the call at least. With that I'll have to ride out the PCP another year and continue saving until then for its replacement. Luckily it's not a dire emergency, plus the market and options for replacement seem to be evolving very fast.

ted1

look at second hand Kia EV 6. Great car has 800V so great charging speeds.

https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/kia-ev6-ev6-earth-5dr-auto-now-with-0-finance/36463515

https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/kia-ev6-just-arrived-kia-ev6-earth-low-rate-finan/36614742

https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/kia-ev6-77-4kwh-air-226bhp/35835149

KCross

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122012584#Comment_122012584

… but the idea for staff chargers was refused, even on a limited scale and with an option of a payment system per kWh.

What reason did they give?

joe1303l

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122013102#Comment_122013102

Seems a pretty crappy attitude, I’d be considering a different employer in the long term…

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122013002#Comment_122013002

I like them, but they are now way overpriced, both new and second hand. €35k for a 3 year old one, when you can pick most of the competitors up brand new for €42k. It's a recipe for massive depreciation. And then of course in a few years time people would ring Joe Duffy and give out EVs depreciate so much 😂

Buddy Bubs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122013189#Comment_122013189

We looked at doing it for staff too but had to draw the line at company and management cars that are used for the business. It's where do you draw the line that's the problem, having someone responsible for activation, managing spaces, arguments my car is lower battery than your car and who gets allocated spots on each day etc ..we've no interest in making a profit on it and a whole load of hassle (for me) with little or no return.

We've 3 11kw work chargers for 8 company EVs, we refused a staff member access to it for his PHEV Outlander because he'd park up all day to get a few kWh

Garzard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122013102#Comment_122013102

No provision for it under company policy was the simple answer really.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122013552#Comment_122013552

Unfortunately you'd be correct on these issues. I did suggest paid charging to avoid this kind of abuse and would, if chargers were agreed on - have set up a WhatsApp group among staff to maintain a fair queue system.

...Ghost...

My situation was a little worse. I had a 24kWh Leaf I was perfectly happy with. Started a new job 2 years ago. Was told there were loads of chargers on site I could use. Yes, there are loads of chargers, but only for certain staff with privileges. I ended needing to change my car. We sold our older 24kWh Leaf and I picked up a Model 3. Pros and Cons. Pros,,,I love the car and it's so comfortable to drive, especially as I have a back injury. Con…I had to take out finance. First time I had ever taken a car loan and also when the price was highest 😅

KCross

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122014652#Comment_122014652

No provision for it under company policy was the simple answer really.

What a crap excuse. That was just a PFO answer. They just dont want to be bothered. Their choice I guess.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122013552#Comment_122013552

It's where do you draw the line that's the problem, having someone responsible for activation, managing spaces, arguments my car is lower battery than your car and who gets allocated spots on each day etc 

I dont think any of those issues are hard to solve. If you need some privileged spaces for certain staff members then do that (card readers to activate makes it easy to implement) but leave the rest open on a first come first served basis and Xhrs time limit. It works in plenty other employers.

No one should be turning up to work with an empty battery and demanding access to a charge point to get them home… its a perk, not a right, and just lay down some simple rules at the start and it will run fine… your employees will appreciate it.

65535

Try a test drive in an MG and see how you get on - I've an MG5 as a replacement for a Skoda Octavia Estate Diesel and so far so good.

Garzard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122015440#Comment_122015440

I haven't test driven any but the MG4 Extended Range would seem like a decent choice. The XPower looks brilliant but at €45,000 I could never justify it.

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122013552#Comment_122013552

My company treat staff fairly. And management doesn’t get any special Privileges, they even fly economy. Like the rest of the pleabs.